To think you can't be 'Pro choice' if you agree in mandate vaccinations?

[secular39]

There. I said it.

But aren't the vaccines still under emergency authorisation? Or do they have full approval now. Surely if they are still under EUA, no job should be able to use it against their employees. What if, God forbid, they failed full auth?

Not necessarily, you typically apply, interview, get the job (I have applied to NHS jobs in the past and no where did it ask whether I had received certain vaccinations) and then Occupational Health Contact you. If you don't book onto Occupational Health, the most likely scenario is that your manager will not be hounding you down to go to OH.

This is not accurate. The most likely scenario is that you won’t be able to start work until Occ Health clear you. I have had a contract held up because there was a query about my Hep B status and I needed to get a booster before I was able to work on the wards.

YABU
"Pro-choice" is about pregnancy termination, not about any random thing

@BelieveInPeople

Not necessarily, you typically apply, interview, get the job (I have applied to NHS jobs in the past and no where did it ask whether I had received certain vaccinations) and then Occupational Health Contact you. If you don't book onto Occupational Health, the most likely scenario is that your manager will not be hounding you down to go to OH.

This is not accurate. The most likely scenario is that you won’t be able to start work until Occ Health clear you. I have had a contract held up because there was a query about my Hep B status and I needed to get a booster before I was able to work on the wards.

Well..that didn't happen to me shrug

Are you working for the NHS now ?

It’s very clear in your contract what vaccines you are expected to have before face to face contact. If OH haven’t chased you up surely that is still for you to arrange this. We have had delays until staff have the correct paperwork (which is a pita as everything is taking longer)

Still confused how you know people who have had dismissal letters when the policy is not in place as of yet the date is set when it will become policy. I work managing a unit I know who is expected to get their letter unless they provide proof or appointment confirmation

You are not getting exemption from your GP because blood clot risk is only relevant for Astra Zeneca. There are no blood clot risks from Pfizer or Moderna. Your GP understands it and hence refusing to give you exemption.
And your pro-choice comparison is completely ridiculous. COVID vaccines are needed to protect others, termination of pregnancy is about you only.

You keep talking about your specialist training but what about patients who will be unsafe in your presence because of your choice.

Well..that didn't happen to me shrug

It happened to me, the occ health, not the hold up, and it happened every time I changed hospital.

I am pro choice for abortion. The only option other than having an abortion is having a baby and it's not acceptable to force anyone to carry and birth a baby they do not want.

I think certain jobs having certain requirements is fine, you still have a choice, get the vaccine or get a new job. I see it as similar to the requirements to have certain vaccinations to travel.

However I am against true mandatory vaccines which other countries are bringing in, when you can be fined/imprisoned for not having the vaccine.

Abortions have nothing to do with vaccines. This is the equivalent of the people who used to say "Then move to the Soviet Union" whenever anybody criticized USA for anything.

Just because people should have bodily autonomy it doesn't mean that their right to bodily autonomy can be allowed to infringe on other people's bodily autonomy. Smoking can also be considered a question of bodily autonomy but it affects others badly so you can't do it near others. If you choose to remain unvaccinated you can't do it near others.

I can't see why it is so difficult to understand that if you have a job where you are meant to care for patients you cannot keep the job if you choose intentionally to do something that will put the patients at risk. ...But then again I did know a carer who moaned and moaned and moaned about not being allowed to smoke when she went to people's private homes to supply care so I really shouldn't be surprised.

You are 100% right.
I'm vaccinated (although regret having it now due to side effects).
It should the person's decision.

YABU - there is a choice, get vaccinated and continue in your job, don’t Get vaccinated and Find a job that doesn’t require it. I absolutely think there should be restrictions for people whibhave not Been vaccinated not just in the work place but elsewhere too. That being said I don’t agree with the Austrian policy of legally mandating it for everyone, people need to be allowed to choose, but those choices should have consequences

@CynsterBitch

YABU - there is a choice, get vaccinated and continue in your job, don’t Get vaccinated and Find a job that doesn’t require it. I absolutely think there should be restrictions for people whibhave not Been vaccinated not just in the work place but elsewhere too. That being said I don’t agree with the Austrian policy of legally mandating it for everyone, people need to be allowed to choose, but those choices should have consequences

Like people being unable to get shopping for their families? Because that's the kind if slippery slope you're agreeing to

You can moan and conplain about the situation as much as you like, you can have your own views about whether it is blackmail, coercion whatever and you could have everyone on here agreeing with you.

But that will not change the fact that from 1 April, it will be illegal for your Trust to continue to employ you in your role so they have no other option but to redeploy or dismiss you. The managers cannot turn a blind eye, they cannot decide to take no action because they agree with you/feel sorry for you (which they may well do). They have to take action to remove you from your role because they have no choice due to the legislation changes.

You either agree with bodily autonomy or you don't. It's not just for when it suits your POV.

It’s not about our POV

It’s about risk management of vulnerable patients

My POV is irrelevant. This applies to many areas of work.

@TheChip Online shopping in a wonderful new invention. But yes actions have consequences, don’t get vaxxed, expect to be barred from certain places.
I actually don’t think that will be an issue this time around though, the strains are getting milder and we’ll be back to normal life soon enough. Before the next back mutation hits in 5-10 years if course

Continuing an unwanted pregnancy has a 100% chance of causing lifelong physical, emotional and financial impact.

Having the vaccine... might give you a sore arm for a bit.

Hardly comparable

[quote CynsterBitch]@TheChip Online shopping in a wonderful new invention. But yes actions have consequences, don’t get vaxxed, expect to be barred from certain places.
I actually don’t think that will be an issue this time around though, the strains are getting milder and we’ll be back to normal life soon enough. Before the next back mutation hits in 5-10 years if course[/quote]
I guess those who can't afford the internet would just have to starve.

Having the vaccine... might give you a sore arm for a bit.

There are Lot of MNers hysterically reporting stronger reactions than that.

Thing is, that argument isn't about bodily autonomy... it's about harms & benefits. Most of the counter-arguments given here against vacc mandates are not addressing bodily autonomy. Instead they are insisting that other principles are more important than bodily autonomy.

That is pretty much what the pro-life brigade say about abortion. That bodily autonomy is secondary to other moral principles, and that the most sacred of these is Right to Life (of the embryo/fetus). So you agree that other things matter more than bodily autonomy.

Nearly All of you saying "It's not the same" are agreeing with OP -- you may not realise it. You don't support bodily autonomy when it comes to Covid vaccines, you are arguing that other things matter more than bodily autonomy.

I dunno if bodily autonomy is "the most important principle" but once you start downgrading it you should not be surprised how much others downgrade it, too.

@TheChip that is certainly one option, or they could get vaccinated, might be the better solution

I think op you’re clearly very angry about the situation you’re in. And understandably so. But you do have choice. A terribly hard choice, but it’s a choice you’re making all the same.

Trying to start an argument and lash out at randoms on the internet though is not going to do anything, no one really cares if you think they meet the definition of pro choice or not.

As said though, it’s an awful situation to find yourself in, to loose the job you trained for years to do because of Covid.

@youarefakenews

You can believe what you like.

The written policies on Trust websites are pretty clear. Trying to argue that the NHS doesn't expect staff to be immunised against a range of conditions because they have already been immunised as children is a bizarre argument. They are already immunised, if they weren't they would be expected to get immunised. Likewise the TB argument where again staff are tested and those without immunity are vaccinated. All risk based.

As for the bollocks about COVID vaccines not going through proper checks. Show your evidence for this and no, a speeded up process is not evidence given that most drugs take a long time approve because of securing funding for trials the not the science.

It seems that lots of people are just making up what they want to be the case and lack the knowledge to even see the basic flaws in what they are saying.

To add to that op, I’d speak to your management about taking a short break where you wait for the test results, if you don’t have the disorder you can then get your vaccines and stay employed. You can show evidence you’re going through clotting disorder tests. Hopefully they are negative and you can then be vaccinated, if not then you’d get an exemption certificate and also stay employed.

YABVU.
You cannot seriously think that abortion and a vaccine are in any way equal.
Working in healthcare requires certain sacrifices for the good of the sick people you're caring for, don't like it, get a different job.

If you genuinely feel that you should be exempt, why are you waiting for an investigation to be done? Surely it just involves a blood test which wouldn’t take more than a couple of weeks. If I was in your position I would be making a private appointment to chat to a haematologist or consultant in a relevant speciality rather than asking a GP whose opinion you obviously don't trust. They will either reassure you or they will confirm that you should be exempt. You've had months to sort this out and your inertia is a bit pathetic.