To think you can't be 'Pro choice' if you agree in mandate vaccinations?

[secular39]

There. I said it.

@WhateverHappenedToFayWray

It is still a choice. A choice means there is more than one option or possibility. Is there more than one option? Yes.

But what if you can't get vaccinated for medical reasons, what then?

You'd already be exempt from the others on your contract and the current rules allow for exemptions. I'm sure you already knew that.

You'd already be exempt from the others on your contract and the current rules allow for exemptions. I'm sure you already knew that.

So if you wanted to travel to another country you would be exempt if you couldn't be vaccinated due to medical issue's? Not trying to be argumentative, this is a genuine concern. Do you think they would care?

@WhateverHappenedToFayWray

You dont if you want to travel and what about NHS workers losing their jobs? That doesn't sound like a choice.

Of course it's a choice. Other countries are free to impose whatever entry requirements they like, and you can choose if you agree to those requirements/terms or not. If you don't, then you accept you can't travel to that place.

NHS front line- face to face- workers will be required to be vaccinated, and may be redeployed (not sacked) if they choose not to be vaccinated: www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2022/01/C1545-update-vcod-for-healthcare-workers-phase-2-implementation.pdf

@WhateverHappenedToFayWray

It is still a choice. A choice means there is more than one option or possibility. Is there more than one option? Yes.

But what if you can't get vaccinated for medical reasons, what then?

There are exemptions for those with a medical reason.

There are exemptions for those with a medical reason.

Yes, I understand that but what if you wanted to travel, would you still be exempt? Would they allow you to travel if you had medical reason for not being vaccinated?

YANBU

Even if I wanted to. I'm not able to get a medical exemption, my GP made that very clear unless the tests say otherwise.

@WhateverHappenedToFayWray

There are exemptions for those with a medical reason.

Yes, I understand that but what if you wanted to travel, would you still be exempt? Would they allow you to travel if you had medical reason for not being vaccinated?

Other countries, other rules. And given these rules already existed before covid for other vaccines then you would already have needed vaccinations for some countries already so surely you had an issue with this pre-covid and would've been up in arms about it before now. Not sure why people never whinged about other countries rules about vaccines before covid and now it is a big issue.

Still a choice not to go to that country. Choose another country instead.

And given these rules already existed before covid for other vaccines then you would already have needed vaccinations for some countries already so surely you had an issue with this pre-covid and would've been up in arms about it before now.

What other vaccines? I know if you want to go to certain countries it is advised that you have a vaccine but I didn't think it was mandatory?

I am pro-choice, I am also pro accepting the consequences of choice.

I wouldn't accept forced vaccinations but having a consequence following on the choice of not getting vaccinated is just a natural consequence.

In the same way that there are consequences to continuing or not continuing with a pregnancy.

Adult should be able to choose and accept the consequences that stem from their choice.

Abortion is not a decision that impacts public health. It impacts the health of only one viable human: the mother. The only counter-argument is that it also impacts the fetus and that the rights of the fetus outweigh the right of the mother to end her pregnancy.

A 'pro-choice' stance isn't about the inalienable right of choice in all matters (this is a severely hard-of-thinking interpretation). It's that only one person is impacted, and that person should be entitled to an abortion.

Being pro-choice about abortion isn't about being thinking that choice is a a virtue that should be defended in every possible situation. I can think of a lot of situations in which I would not support a person's right to choose an action that harms others.

You aren't pro-choice either, OP. No one is, unless they're sociopaths. It's all very situation-dependent.

What's your stance on mandatory seatbelt use? No-smoking legislation? Helmet laws? Court intervention when parents have refused life-saving medical care to a child due to religious beliefs? Really, it goes on and on.

For all the reasons other people have given and it's too tedious to repeat, OP, you are talking utter bollocks.
I've seem so much nonsense spouted about vaccines but this is right up there with the most stupid and illogical arguments around.

@WhateverHappenedToFayWray

And given these rules already existed before covid for other vaccines then you would already have needed vaccinations for some countries already so surely you had an issue with this pre-covid and would've been up in arms about it before now.

What other vaccines? I know if you want to go to certain countries it is advised that you have a vaccine but I didn't think it was mandatory?

Yellow fever is mandatory in some countries. You must produce a certificate for it or a medical waiver for exemptions.

Yellow fever is mandatory in some countries. You must produce a certificate for it or a medical waiver for exemptions.

You're right, I've just read that.

A cholera vaccination is also mandatory in some countries.

I don’t agree with mandatory vaccines eg everyone over 50 has to have it.

I do think it’s reasonable in some circumstances that an employer says you must have certain vaccinations if you want to work in these areas because of the risks to you (diseases) the client/patients/public (you are likely to spread it more easily) and the employer (being sued for your illness acquired from working).

If you want to work for them, eg NHS front line clinical areas you get hepatitis and tetanus jabs for example, why not covid - but I would say as usual, the NHS is getting the grief for a policy dreamt up by politicians at a drunken party/office meeting at no10.

It isn’t sensible to me to impose such a massive policy change to sack people already working there, it is possible to say there are restrictions on how/where you can work for example, which may in the long term mean people can’t get certain promotions but still giving them choice.

It is ok to mandate that anyone joining the NHS from April is vaccinated as then it’s an informed choice to apply.

I'm happy to call myself anti forced birth instead of pro choice.

Yabu, ridiculously so.
If I don’t want a baby that only affects me and the cells.
If I don’t have a vaccine I can hugely impact other people.
The two are not comparable and you know that

It's a question of where your rights infringe on someone else's. Abortion = your right, does not impact on others; refusal to get vaccination will impact negatively on others.

@Awalkintime presentation of vaccination certificates is mandatory at primary schools in many European countries, eg France and Switzerland. Everyone who wants their child to go to school just gets them.

A person's views on bodily autonomy are not a binary thing. A person does not believe in either complete "bodily autonomy" or no "bodily autonomy."

To me, believing it is a rigid yes/no question is very narrow-minded and frankly ridiculous.

There are many things we are required by societal norms and laws to do. There are also things where we have a choice.

Being pro choice and also believing in mandatory vaccination in order to do certain things are not mutually exclusive. No one is holding people down kicking and screaming in order to give them the vaccine. Same thing for abortion.

[quote Chocolatefreak]@Awalkintime presentation of vaccination certificates is mandatory at primary schools in many European countries, eg France and Switzerland. Everyone who wants their child to go to school just gets them. [/quote]
And in other non-European countries too. It makes me wonder why no one cared about this before covid. Maybe they weren't pro-choice before then!! ha!

They are completely different issues.

A woman's choice to abort her own pregnancy does not impact the wider population, other than positively due to there being one less unwanted child.

The decision to choose not to have a vaccine affects vulnerable people who medically cannot have it, by increasing transmission.

It's about how decisions affect others. Health care workers are regularly coming into contact with vulnerable and immunocompromised people, its seriously important that they are vaccinated and if they are unwilling, perhaps it's not a good choice of career.

What health care workers who refuse the vaccine are basically saying is that they don't think the vulnerable people they are paid to look after should have any say over whether they are exposed to unvaccinated people.

My neighbor is refusing to get vaccinated. He works with elderly people in their homes. They should have the right to refuse him entry. He hasn't got any health concerns that mean he shouldn't get vaccinated. He just believes everything he reads on the internet.

Logic by pass, OP?

Only the mince thick would think so.