To think that men shouldn't be named as women in newspapers if they have committed sexual offences?

[WandaWomblesaurus73]

Just that really - I'm seeing more and more newspaper reports where women are being implicated in weird sexual crimes and the you see the picture and it's obviously a man.

Now I totally get that if someone is transitioning it's polite to call them by their preferred name etc - but AIBU to think that some of these criminals are just taking the piss?

Here are some recent examples - and there are loads more.

www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/19802592.northwich-woman-jailed-cocaine-fuelled-sex-dog/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10339797/amp/Thumb-sucking-paedophile-claims-identify-five-year-old-girl-comes-court-dressed-ELF.html

How can anyone think this is ok? And will these "women" end up in women's prisons out of politeness?

How can MW say a man cannot run the facility when a man is running it?

@Enough4me

How can MW say a man cannot run the facility when a man is running it?

In April 2019, MW's status as a transwoman was not public knowledge.

So it's a big pack of lies?

You may say that; I couldn't possibly comment.

For those unsure about the confusing timeline, that extract above is a copy of an interview with a student newspaper in Edinburgh, in April 2019. The newspaper site has since been edited to remove the more interesting parts of the article, but we have the original article archived.

The transcript of the video with the activist Fox Fisher was released in May 2019. This part is particularly interesting, for anyone who missed it.

Staying on has been personal because it is pretty clear to me that I was the only transwoman in the women's aid movement. And I wasn't even sure that if I had been hired, if they had known that I was trans. When I came out individually to various colleagues, there was this disbelief: "Oh, you can't be trans". You know, what does a trans person look like? What does a cis woman look like? How do we know? Over a period of time it became more and more important within my work in this movement to be a transwoman.

MW commented elsewhere that MW had not disclosed their sex at interview for Forth Valley RC.

"What does a cis woman look like? How do we know?"

It's really easy, we've used our eyes since the beginning of mankind as cave people were able to work it out and procreate.

This is a round-up of what the situation was on October 2020, with details on what had come out between 2019 and 2020.

wingsoverscotland.com/waiting-for-the-men/

This is a transcript of a feminist podcast that had MW on as a guest in August 2021.

In keeping with the previous pattern of the newspaper interview and the video interview, MW disclosed personal perspectives that feminist listeners found novel, disturbing and indicative of someone wholly unsuitable for their roles supporting women after sexual violence.

forwomen.scot/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Mridul-Wadhwa-Guilty-Feminist-transcript.pdf

I think it is important to read/listen for oneself, but this was one controversial part.

MW: Well, as you're building bridges, maybe I should put away the Goddess Kali that seems to
have emerged as I'm speaking to you. Trust me. One of my favourite pictures if you Google Goddess Kali, the first Wikipedia picture, that's often me. I think it's important that there's a group of women that I'm really interested in, who are affected by this debate. And I say debate very generously because I don't believe it is. Debate is when there's equality of voices and respect. But this is about who has power and who doesn't.

But there are a group of survivors who will be watching and seeing what is being played out about spaces that they're potentially going to use. And be informed or misinformed about what actually happens here and be, possibly be fearful. And I think if you're worried about
these things, about inclusion and what trans inclusion means within women's organisations, and if your local women's organisation or Rape Crisis Centre or Women’s Aid is openly trans inclusive, and you just don't understand, reach out to them and ask those questions. I think it's important to know that we see you as an individual. And we come as survivors with experiences that often feel to the outside world as holding prejudice. So we might have fear of men of a certain ethnicity, we might have fear of trans people, and it could be linked to an experience of trauma. I think it is, it is okay to hold those things as long as you are willing to acknowledge that, in support, we will accept that.

But there is a difference also when, and I am not sure if I said this as clearly and transparently as I want to, but I’m trying. Apologies, if I haven't done it well. But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so, you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices, because how can you heal from trauma and build a new relationship with your trauma, because you can’t forget, and you can’t go back to life before traumatic incident or traumatic incidents. And some of us never, ever had a life before traumatic incidents. But if you have to reframe your trauma, I think it is important as part of that reframing, having a more positive relationship with it, where it becomes a story that empowers you and allows you to go and do other more beautiful things with your life, you also have to rethink your relationship with prejudice. Otherwise, you can’t really, in my view, recover from trauma and I think that’s a very important message that I am often discussing with my colleagues that in various places. Because you know, to me, therapy is political, and it isn’t always seen as that.

www.forwomen.scot/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Mridul-Wadhwa-Guilty-Feminist-transcript.pdf

That is repugnant. This sounds to me like: ‘I will exploit your status as a traumatised victim of sexual violence (by men) to break down your barriers further and allow men into your counselling spaces despite your wishes to have female only recovery support.’

I don’t know how Nicola Sturgeon can sleep at night, knowing this man is in charge of a rape crisis centre under her own eyes.

"sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so, you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices, because how can you heal from trauma and build a new relationship with your trauma, because you can’t forget, and you can’t go back to life before traumatic incident or traumatic incidents."

To say this bullshit to traumatised women who have been raped and still keep your job is the sort of thing you would usually expect from a male. Strange then that these words are from a "woman" in a position of power. It's almost as though they have no idea what they are talking about.

@YouSetTheTone

That is repugnant. This sounds to me like: ‘I will exploit your status as a traumatised victim of sexual violence (by men) to break down your barriers further and allow men into your counselling spaces despite your wishes to have female only recovery support.’ I don’t know how Nicola Sturgeon can sleep at night, knowing this man is in charge of a rape crisis centre under her own eyes.

Nicola Sturgeon heckles people who talk about womens rights - we are clearly the wrong kind of women to expect her support.

susandalgety.substack.com/p/shame-on-you-nicola-sturgeon

And this is where the uncritical ‘Be kind’ nonsense get us. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

"Be kind" to TW, don't say what your eyes see, what your ears hear, what you know to be true.

"Be kind" to the young TM, ignore the irreversible damage they do to escape from the problems being female encompasses.

Be kind, really means lie.

So unreasonable, OP! Who are you to get judgy when a lady gets into a roid rage?

www.echo-news.co.uk/news/19837391.colchester-sex-offender-21-sick-child-images/

And another one
#TheseAreNotOurCrimes

"The court was told some of the most serious images had “hallmarks of sadism” and involved the abuse of toddlers."

What the actual FUCK is this?

He'll claim he was stressed and had MH issues as faces disadvantages as he's a TW. Women cannot claim that being actual women puts us in a vulnerable position, because only men are attuned to the victim role (women have to get on with being capable adults).

www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/01/female-prisoners-shouldnt-be-used-as-a-shield-for-trans-women-from-male-violence

"Often lost in this debate, however, is the focus on the women actually in those prisons. Eighty-two per cent of women are in prison for non-violent crime and with short sentences. Fifteen per cent of women are serving less than a year. A high proportion are working class, poor and/or BAME. They are often sentenced because of offences committed in order to feed and clothe themselves and their family, or because they committed offences to provide for the drug use of another.
Among them are many women who have been coerced, abused, prostituted and raped by men. Fifty-three per cent of women in prison have reported childhood sexual abuse, and 64 per cent of women in one study exhibited brain injuries consistent with having experienced domestic abuse (of which 96 per cent reported they had been victims of)."

Prison may have been safer for them then the DV in their homes, but being locked up with a man upturns this completely.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ylEjDyimYAs&feature=emb_title

This speech by a former inmate should be heard by every woman.

This is Rebekah Wershbale’s speechh^ which she delivered outside HMP Styal in which she herself served a sentence.

“Today’s demonstration, this protest, this outright OBJECTION to men in women’s prisons is a subject that resonates with me on a terrible, very personal level.
I’m a former inmate of HMP Styal. This occasion marks the first time I’ve returned to these grounds since I was shipped out in a sweat box 10 years ago. The conditions inside were as bleak then as they are now. Healthcare was not a priority, women were and are terribly unwell, with godawful diets and no good treatment plans. Mental health care is practically nonexistent. We’re talking about a forgotten population of the most achingly vulnerable women that society has left behind. Self-harm is endemic, the statistics say that the prevalence is 5 times higher than the rates in men’s prisons – in reality, this translates to the fact that the women I knew inside that didn’t self-harm were a clear minority.
Many of the inmates are mothers. They miss their babies. You can hear them crying every night after lights out. The fear, pain and despondency they feel is palpable.
There are women as well that feel safer here. They welcome institutionalisation, even under these dire circumstances because their lives have been fraught with and rent asunder by MALE VIOLENCE. From their fathers, friends, strangers, partners and husbands. We know the numbers. 60% – well over half – report experiencing domestic violence. 30% report sexual assault. There is no provision for therapy or meaningful recovery so they make the best of what they have, which up until recently was an exclusively female relatively safe space.
Taking all these tragic factors into account, it should be a scandal that these women – with literally NOTHING to shield them, are now being subjected to men, violent, manipulative, aggressive MEN in the tiny spaces they’re permitted. On top of all the existing grievous harms and insults to their wellbeing. On top of all their anxieties and helplessness, they now have to endure men in their estates. In their cells.
It’s hard to imagine their disquiet at this frankly unthinkable development. Hard to comprehend how they must feel at the prospect of being trapped, with no way out. Locked down by a benign and loving government that just wants to do right by ‘transgender prisoners’ and couldn’t give a shit about the comfort, dignity and PHYSICAL SAFETY of a group of traumatised and marginalised women. Women who’ve already had to survive violent hardships and who are rightly terrified of men are now also terrified to say how they’re being affected.
This is an OUTRAGE. This subject brought me as close to the forefront of campaigning as I could get because I know firsthand, from my own ‘lived experience’ that female prisoners are barely afforded a second consideration in society. We’re pariahs – judged, unemployable and scarred. The women in this prison have vanishingly few advocates, which is precisely why they were among the first to suffer the horrific consequences of the transgender experiment.
This situation is disgusting. Whether it’s a heinous oversight, a sadistic abuse of power or simply cowardice and unwillingness to challenge trans dogma in government, it is a complete travesty. Every last person responsible should feel shame at this abject dereliction of duty.
We’re here to be a voice for the voiceless women and should a resounding NO to this legislation. At all costs and by whatever means necessary, we need to KEEP PRISONS SINGLE SEX."

@MorningStarling

I honestly can't get too worked up about whether a rapist believes they are male or female. Clearly I'm in the minority but to me the term #notourcrimes applies because I'm one of the people who has never committed rape or sexual assault, not because I'm female.

There was a thread a few weeks ago about the Northwich dog abuser. I said then what I'll say now, I genuinely don't care whether someone like that is locked up in a male prison or a female one, the important thing is that they are taken away from society. Any future crimes they commit whilst in prison are not OK, but at least they will be committed on fellow prisoners rather than the general public. Prisons are not nice places, they're not meant to be nice places, the fear of getting locked up with a transgender rapist for 23 hours a day serves as a good deterrent not to be sent to prison in the first place. I don't want them to abuse a female prisoner, I don't want them to abuse anyone - but if they do, better their victim be a prisoner than a normal person.

To me it doesn't matter whether crime statistics are skewed by so-called "female" rapists. What matters is that rapes aren't committed, and if they do that the offender is locked up. Suggesting it is harmful that a transgender rapist has their crime recorded as a female one implies that the victim is less of a victim because their attacker was "only" a woman. I'd suggest many rape victims are traumatised by the crime itself, which prison their attacker ends up in and which list the crime is recorded on is only a minor concern.

Society has evolved and now believes that someone can become a member of the gender they were not born as. Whether you think that's right or wrong, that's where we are. There were similar arguments when rights for homosexuals were being promoted decades ago - they were identified and treated differently in prison because they were deemed at greater risk of attacking others. If we believe a person has the right to choose their sexuality, now their gender, we must allow them that right without limitation. We can't say "well you can live as a woman except when it comes to playing sport or going to prison" - either a man can transition to become a woman, or they can't.

I am resurrecting this thread, because I have something else for @MorningStarling to think about.

This is a quote from Jackie Doyle-Price MP's speech during the International Women's Day Debate in Parliament, as recorded by Hansard.

excerpt

We know also that many women do not belong in prison in the first place. One issue I have been taking up with the Ministry of Justice is the extent to which women are remanded in prison for their own protection. We have a mental health policy that has been removing police cells and prisons as places of safety—recognising that they are not good environments for people who are mentally unwell—but we are still remanding women in prison for their own safety. I thought it would be only a small number of women, probably no more than a dozen a year. Having raised the issue with the Government, I could not get any data on it. However, Her Majesty’s inspectorate of prisons visited three prisons last year and in total found 68 women who had been remanded in prison for their own protection. They were not people who had committed an offence, and it was not a punishment. It is totally inappropriate for a country such as this to be remanding women in prison for that purpose, and that was in just three prisons. Across the whole system, we know that women being remanded for their own protection are a significant proportion of the prison establishment, and frankly that is not good enough. I am ashamed of it, and I call on the Government to do better.

My criticism is not with the Ministry of Justice. One of the issues is that the Ministry of Justice is sweeping up the failings of other organisations within the public sector. It is sweeping up the ability of local authorities to offer safe spaces for women to be sent to when they are at risk. Mental health services are sweeping up that failure by the Department of Health and Social Care, and I encourage the Ministry of Justice to be rather more robust in its dealings with other Departments and say, “You know what? These are not our problems, they are yours.” We should not be dealing with vulnerable people within our estate.

[Bold mine]
Continues hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-03-10/debates/1C377E5F-9903-48CD-A036-1F1728D726B2/InternationalWomen%E2%80%99SDay

Women experiencing mental health crises are placed in prison, without them having committed any offence, to keep them safe. Is it still acceptable to you that they face any risk of rape in there?

However, Her Majesty’s inspectorate of prisons visited three prisons last year and in total found 68 women who had been remanded in prison for their own protection
…
Women experiencing mental health crises are placed in prison, without them having committed any offence, to keep them safe. Is it still acceptable to you that they face any risk of rape in there?

I'm not the poster you're addressing but I'm horrified. I had no idea that women were being imprisoned/remanded for such reasons.

I hadn't seen Morningstarling's post before. How absolutely fucking callous and horrible. Prisoners still have rights, they don't get thrown in a pit and left to rot. Have you time travelled from Roman times, Starling?

@DomesticatedZombie

I hadn't seen Morningstarling's post before. How absolutely fucking callous and horrible. Prisoners still have rights, they don't get thrown in a pit and left to rot. Have you time travelled from Roman times, Starling?

Exactly. I do my utmost to keep to the rules and not break the law but I am aware how things can suddenly go drastically wrong in an otherwise ‘normal’ life.

A car accident where you are unfairly blamed for injuring someone (I have seen first hand how biased and manipulative the police can be on this) and sent to prison, a Post Office manager who gets wrongly convicted of fraud because of a dodgy IT system that the PO refused to investigate, a victim of domestic abuse whose partner runs up huge debt in their name and she can’t pay her tv licence and gets jailed.

These things happen to women and the experience of being ripped away from your children and home is bad enough but to be locked up with a male who delights in taunting you, exposing himself and threatening you (or worse) while you’re in there? That is inhuman.

OP YANBU - Stonewall have been very thorough with their capture of key organisations. IPSO and Ofcom, the print and tv regulators enforce rules around using female pronouns for males with a trans identity regardless of the visual evidence.

News presenters and journalists have been disciplined for attempting to accurately report crimes and their perpetrators. It must feel terrible to be forced to report lies and obscure the seriousness of sexual crimes against women and children.

We need to keep complaining to Ofcom and IPSO for this enforced suppression of the truth.

Well, to be honest even when someone has committed a crime and harmed others, we don't abandon them to the wolves because we are supposed to be a civilised society which means we lead by example, we don't seek retribution/revenge and we attempt to rehabilitate.

I thought, anyway.

@itsgettingweird

It's going too far now.

It's always been too far, it was a shit show waiting to happen the minute the GRA was passed in 2004, several MP's and Lords highlighted exactly where this would lead and, of course, that was hand waved away with that will never happen now it fucking has and those that support this insidious agenda still make excuses and are dismissive of the impact it is having.

The bottom line is it is only women and girls who are impacted and let's face it women and girls just don't matter and never have.

YANBU Op.