To think that men shouldn't be named as women in newspapers if they have committed sexual offences?

[WandaWomblesaurus73]

Just that really - I'm seeing more and more newspaper reports where women are being implicated in weird sexual crimes and the you see the picture and it's obviously a man.

Now I totally get that if someone is transitioning it's polite to call them by their preferred name etc - but AIBU to think that some of these criminals are just taking the piss?

Here are some recent examples - and there are loads more.

www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/19802592.northwich-woman-jailed-cocaine-fuelled-sex-dog/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10339797/amp/Thumb-sucking-paedophile-claims-identify-five-year-old-girl-comes-court-dressed-ELF.html

How can anyone think this is ok? And will these "women" end up in women's prisons out of politeness?

I am heartened to see this thread has made it to 13 pages without being relegated to the Naughty Corner, and that so many posters are seeing the shitshow for what it is.

Surely in future years people will look back in bewilderment on a society that:

-locks up rapists in women's prisons
-forces women to pretend in court that their rapist was a woman
-allows experimental drugs to be used on children who don't conform to gender stereotypes
-makes girls who are uncomfortable about changing with males feel bad about their discomfort

I want to be able to say that I took an active part in rejecting this.

@MorningStarling

I honestly can't get too worked up about whether a rapist believes they are male or female. Clearly I'm in the minority but to me the term #notourcrimes applies because I'm one of the people who has never committed rape or sexual assault, not because I'm female.

There was a thread a few weeks ago about the Northwich dog abuser. I said then what I'll say now, I genuinely don't care whether someone like that is locked up in a male prison or a female one, the important thing is that they are taken away from society. Any future crimes they commit whilst in prison are not OK, but at least they will be committed on fellow prisoners rather than the general public. Prisons are not nice places, they're not meant to be nice places, the fear of getting locked up with a transgender rapist for 23 hours a day serves as a good deterrent not to be sent to prison in the first place. I don't want them to abuse a female prisoner, I don't want them to abuse anyone - but if they do, better their victim be a prisoner than a normal person.

To me it doesn't matter whether crime statistics are skewed by so-called "female" rapists. What matters is that rapes aren't committed, and if they do that the offender is locked up. Suggesting it is harmful that a transgender rapist has their crime recorded as a female one implies that the victim is less of a victim because their attacker was "only" a woman. I'd suggest many rape victims are traumatised by the crime itself, which prison their attacker ends up in and which list the crime is recorded on is only a minor concern.

Society has evolved and now believes that someone can become a member of the gender they were not born as. Whether you think that's right or wrong, that's where we are. There were similar arguments when rights for homosexuals were being promoted decades ago - they were identified and treated differently in prison because they were deemed at greater risk of attacking others. If we believe a person has the right to choose their sexuality, now their gender, we must allow them that right without limitation. We can't say "well you can live as a woman except when it comes to playing sport or going to prison" - either a man can transition to become a woman, or they can't.

Prisons are not nice places, they're not meant to be nice places, the fear of getting locked up with a transgender rapist for 23 hours a day serves as a good deterrent not to be sent to prison in the first place. I don't want them to abuse a female prisoner, I don't want them to abuse anyone - but if they do, better their victim be a prisoner than a normal person.

Grotesque as this argument is, ie. that a "good deterrent" to women committing crime would be the fear and risk of being raped in prison, it is worth noting that one of the arguments often made for imprisoning certain men with women is that those men are in fear of and at risk of being raped in a men's prison.

However, if it is reasonable to use the fear and risk of being raped as a "deterrent" to women (who are usually convicted of non-violent offences) it should surely be even more reasonable to use the fear and risk of being raped as a "deterrent" to men, who are much more often convicted of violent offences and sex crimes.

Since males with a variety of "trans identities" are much more likely to be in prison for crimes of violence and sex crimes than other males, the "deterrent" argument suggests that they should always be imprisoned in the Men's Estate.

The argument that they should be given a waiver if they have committed a non-violent crime does not hold because (according to MorningStarling's explanation) women who commit such crimes are undeserving of protection because they are not "normal people".

MorningStarling also points out that women can be violent towards each other in prison.

Logically, using MorningStarling's reasoning:

1. All males should be imprisoned in the Men's Estate, where they can live in fear and at risk of rape as a "deterrent".

1. This should be especially true for males who have committed violent crimes and sex crimes. Society surely wants to deter these crimes more than others plus there is the added bonus of "an eye for an eye".

1. Women are much more likely to be convicted of non-violent crimes so the "deterrent" surely does not need to be as extreme and living in fear of and at risk of violence from other women should suffice?

However, MorningStarling in effect suggests that the current situation is justified because:

• protecting women (mostly non-violent and already traumatised and abused) from unnecessary fear and the risk of violence should be given zero priority

• protecting males (who present a greater threat of violence to women even if their crimes were non-violent) from unnecessary fear and the risk of violence should be given top priority, with the added bonus for sex-offenders that they have access to captive prey.

MorningStarling

• why do you think it is only women who should be "deterred" from committing crime by the fear and threat of being raped in prison?

• why do you think rapists should be rewarded by having potential victims incarcerated with them? Surely this would encourage rapists rather than deterring them?

It’s BS and these rapists should at least be called transwomen in reports.

‘ Prisons are not nice places, they're not meant to be nice places, the fear of getting locked up with a transgender rapist for 23 hours a day serves as a good deterrent not to be sent to prison in the first place. I don't want them to abuse a female prisoner, I don't want them to abuse anyone - but if they do, better their victim be a prisoner than a normal person.’

Jesus Christ. You know why most women go to jail in the first place? You might get the rare violent criminal ( who still deserve to be safe in prison by the way) but mainly they come from abusive backgrounds, where drugs, poverty and DV has played a massive part in their lives. Prison is not a deterrent.
I don’t commit crimes because I had a living childhood, a decent education and opportunities not because I’m afraid of prison.

I've heard of cruel and unusual punishment, but that takes the biscuit.

Of course YANBU! These "women" are just vile men, sex offenders hwo have jumped on the transgender band-wagon in rder to access their chosen victim group, women or children or both, more easily! It actually makes my blood boil that they're allowed to do so! That is a crime in itself!
I do hope though, that most people still have some sense and when they see the photo of the so-called "woman" sex offender, they'll realise it's a man and won't be fooled! The trouble is, will they have the courage to express themselves openly on the matter or will they be too frightened of being called names, just like the police and SS were in the cases of the underage girls made sex- slaves by Muslim gangs? If we don't speak out against it, it'll just keep being done and only get worse!

Drives me mad. You don't see women wanting to be men so they can compete in mens sports (they wouldn't win and there would be uproar from men), or women committing crimes and pretending to be trans so they can go to a mens prison. Or women wanting to go in mens changing rooms. It's all about men trying to get access to womens places and an easier life in prisons. Once again womens rights get trampled on and we can't do anything about it in case we get called transphobic.

I have read many things on these boards with which I have strongly disagreed but MorningStarling's contribution is really beyond the pale. Cruel and unusual punishment indeed. ! Sickening!

@Beowulfa

I am heartened to see this thread has made it to 13 pages without being relegated to the Naughty Corner, and that so many posters are seeing the shitshow for what it is.

Surely in future years people will look back in bewilderment on a society that:

-locks up rapists in women's prisons
-forces women to pretend in court that their rapist was a woman
-allows experimental drugs to be used on children who don't conform to gender stereotypes
-makes girls who are uncomfortable about changing with males feel bad about their discomfort

I want to be able to say that I took an active part in rejecting this.

Exactly this. How many women here wish they could speak out about it freely? In other words, how many of us are there? I do not believe that as many women don't know about it all by now as did this time last year. The ratio in some of the newspapers is reversed too.

@MorningStarling your argument is that rapists can go to women's prisons to carry on raping to punish female prisoners. That damages women who are likely to have experienced abuse, but how does this reduce rape?

Could it even increase rape if rapists find it easier to find prey in women's prisons than on the streets?

It’s BS and these rapists should at least be called transwomen in reports

No, it's because of polite fiction we're in this mess. At least when transvestite was used the general public understood that the individual still had a penis.
Thanks to transwomen being used as an umbrella from everyone to fully op to bearded bloke with male name, the word has been used to knock down women's boundaries.
If I was a (post op) trans person I would want a word to distinguish people from me. Not because they have rights to the female space and estate, they don't; but because it causes confusion to lump different groups of people with very different ideas together.

We have lots of words for the different branches of Christian, at least four words for people that don't eat meat, even bame is criticised for being too general. What good comes from calling all and sundry transwomen? It just caused confusion at best and allows breach of boundaries at worst.

Good article by Tory Mp in today’s Times
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4229fe10-6db1-11ec-87c8-7ab22098d3fb?shareToken=ced91a35371048d54b0113ee7df4a62a

From the article:
At present applicants must be 18 years old, supply evidence of a medical diagnosis for gender dysphoria and swear an oath that they have been living in their “new” gender for two years.

Which is very different to the general publics' idea of trans. Generally assumed to be someone with gender dysphoria (diagnosis on patient evidence and no concrete evidence. Mostly based on stereotypes) who has had extensive surgery and removed their penis. Living in the new gender can be as simple as changing post to a gender neutral name.
Compare to something like claiming disability allowance based on a real need it's a walk in the park.

@WorriedMumsDontSleep

From the article: At present applicants must be 18 years old, supply evidence of a medical diagnosis for gender dysphoria and swear an oath that they have been living in their “new” gender for two years.

Which is very different to the general publics' idea of trans. Generally assumed to be someone with gender dysphoria (diagnosis on patient evidence and no concrete evidence. Mostly based on stereotypes) who has had extensive surgery and removed their penis. Living in the new gender can be as simple as changing post to a gender neutral name.
Compare to something like claiming disability allowance based on a real need it's a walk in the park.

Yes. A key point is that it no longer means someone who feels they were "born in the wrong body" and should have been born the opposite sex to what they are. It now just means "feeling female" (how do you know what this is if you are not female?) and therefore womanhood becomes merely a feeling. And no different to actually inhabiting a female body. You can be 100% comfortable in your male body, but in the new understanding, you are literally a woman just by feeling it, and you should therefore have access to all female spaces even though you're actually very comfortable in a male body.

@morningstarling

There was a thread a few weeks ago about the Northwich dog abuser. I said then what I'll say now, I genuinely don't care whether someone like that is locked up in a male prison or a female one, the important thing is that they are taken away from society. Any future crimes they commit whilst in prison are not OK, but at least they will be committed on fellow prisoners rather than the general public. Prisons are not nice places, they're not meant to be nice places, the fear of getting locked up with a transgender rapist for 23 hours a day serves as a good deterrent not to be sent to prison in the first place. I don't want them to abuse a female prisoner, I don't want them to abuse anyone - but if they do, better their victim be a prisoner than a normal person.

Your post demonstrates that not being in prison does not make someone "a normal person" [sic]

It is probably the worst comment I have ever read in over 10 years on this site.

Feel physically sick after reading that. It is horrendous that a person who would think and say those things exists as part of our society.

@OnlyAFleshWound, I agree, none of us is exempt from the risk of being incorrectly judged and being arrested or placed in prison. I say this as a professional and a non-criminal so no actual experience, but we all know there are cases of misidentification, false allegations and similar. Plus add in cases where mental health has not been treated or coercion and abuse has led to retaliation or defence.

Prisons are punishment through lack of freedom, not punishment through torture.

[quote Enough4me]@OnlyAFleshWound, I agree, none of us is exempt from the risk of being incorrectly judged and being arrested or placed in prison. I say this as a professional and a non-criminal so no actual experience, but we all know there are cases of misidentification, false allegations and similar. Plus add in cases where mental health has not been treated or coercion and abuse has led to retaliation or defence.

Prisons are punishment through lack of freedom, not punishment through torture.[/quote]
And even if someone has been correctly arrested and convicted and imprisoned, and has no mental health problems and didn't act in self-defence, they still don't deserve to be locked up with a rapist and raped. FGS.

Prisoners are people with human rights, not disposable animals as @MorningStarling suggests.

True, it's strange that human rights are rights if you're a man wanting access to women's bodies and declare yourself a woman, but not if your an imprisoned women.

And it's essential to protect convicted rapists like Karen White from being raped by male prisoners by placing them in the women's estate. No-one seems to think the unpleasantness of prison should simply deter the males who claim transgender identities from committing rape in the first place.

White was in prison on remand for raping a woman in a locked psychiatric ward. He raped her so violently that she was left with permanent injuries that mean she can never have children. But he got placed in a women's prison for his human rights.

But a 19 year old girl should be expected to accept rape as part of the penalty for shoplifting?

Why?!

Because she's a woman, a non-man. She should be kind and smile, laugh at male jokes as it's not sexist if it's called banter, know her place.

Appallingly, rape and sexual abuse (almost always by men) of very vulnerable people (women and girls) is rife. It very often goes undetected and unpunished. A new report about care homes and long stay hospitals shows that disabled women are incredibly vulnerable, mainly because they can't 'fight back' or communicate (ie report) abuse and/or won't be taken seriously by the authorities. morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/its-massive-scandal-just-waiting-break
Women in prisons are similarly 'hidden' and voiceless. NO males should ever be imprisoned with women, and especially not those who have already committed sexual offences. How they may choose to 'identify' gender-wise is immaterial, they should NEVER be with women in womens prisons. If they are at risk in men's prisons, then let there be a 'third space' for transwomen prisoners. Its not the job of women to protect men from other violent men, especially if they themselves end up at risk of violence.

Yes OnlyaFleshWound that post of MorningStarling is beneath contempt.

Given that predatory men will look for opportunities that allow them access to children and vulnerable females - priests, scout leaders, teachers, hospital staff etc - why anyone would think they wouldn't use the transgender umbrella veil of protection to get access to both privilege and victims, is beyond me.

Transsexuals and Transvestites should never have been lumped in together. Most women think that "Transwomen" are effeminate gay men who just want to be feminine and who are both vulnerable and safe. Many of us have gay male friends who are safe and supportive. Some of us have known transsexual people who are absolutely lovely.

However working in theatre and nightclubs - I met straight men who were simply in it for the fetish of getting turned on by dressing as a caricature of women. Being a women is not a fetish.

It's also not and can never be an idea in a man's head of what being a woman is like. They have no idea. It's stereotypes. I will not submit to being put in the same category as men who fetishise women in order to get a hard on - having access to our spaces and our children.

What we are seeing amongst the trans ideological bandwagon now are predatory men using the cause to bully women into submission.

At what point does it stop? Who needs to be raped for it to stop? It's already happening in prisons. These women are the canaries in the coal mine.

Could anyone take Stonewall to court for successfully lobbying for such damaging practical outcomes from a nebulous ideology?
The slogans alone - ‘TWAW’ and ‘acceptance without exception’ - are part of a movement that has seen women paying a significant cost - in prisons, in court cases, in sporting arenas etc. Then there was all the secret meetings with people in power, the aggressive ‘training’ of the police force, the judiciary, the schools, the hospitals, the sporting committees..
Would we be here if the questions asked of society had been ‘are transvestites allowed in women’s sport?’ Or ‘are transvestites allowed in women’s rape crisis centres?’

Nancy Kelly of Stonewall was interviewed on Women's Hour.
Absolutely shocking.

Also on another thread regarding medical language for women...

Also in the way they have pushed trans ideology on children...

Stonewall have a lot to answer for.