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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that men shouldn't be named as women in newspapers if they have committed sexual offences?

385 replies

WandaWomblesaurus73 · 02/01/2022 14:59

Just that really - I'm seeing more and more newspaper reports where women are being implicated in weird sexual crimes and the you see the picture and it's obviously a man.

Now I totally get that if someone is transitioning it's polite to call them by their preferred name etc - but AIBU to think that some of these criminals are just taking the piss?

Here are some recent examples - and there are loads more.

www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/19802592.northwich-woman-jailed-cocaine-fuelled-sex-dog/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10339797/amp/Thumb-sucking-paedophile-claims-identify-five-year-old-girl-comes-court-dressed-ELF.html

How can anyone think this is ok? And will these "women" end up in women's prisons out of politeness?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
DrSbaitso · 07/01/2022 11:00

@WandaWomblesaurus73

Nancy Kelly of Stonewall was interviewed on Women's Hour. Absolutely shocking.

Also on another thread regarding medical language for women...

Also in the way they have pushed trans ideology on children...

Stonewall have a lot to answer for.

What did she say this time? Something homophobic?
WandaWomblesaurus73 · 07/01/2022 11:15

It's the one she did a few weeks ago.

OP posts:
Lovelyricepudding · 07/01/2022 16:15

@WandaWomblesaurus73

Nancy Kelly of Stonewall was interviewed on Women's Hour. Absolutely shocking.

Also on another thread regarding medical language for women...

Also in the way they have pushed trans ideology on children...

Stonewall have a lot to answer for.

She was also interviewed by Qatari-owned Al Jazeera where she praised her hosts for their lack of questioning and condemned the UK as intolerant. I am sure Qatar''s rulers (and Al Jazeera owners) lapped this up... no mention of their laws on homosexuality or the 6500 people who died building the football world cup stadium...
Verv · 07/01/2022 16:25

YANBU, males are not women, even if they are uncomfortable with being male, they are still not women and should not be recorded as such when indulging in what is essentially male crime against women.

Stonewall no longer represents same sex attracted people.
Hasnt for a while.

WandaWomblesaurus73 · 08/01/2022 03:08

At what point were the public consulted on men being put into women's prisons?

Have Stonewall put policies in place in institutions without the public being consulted?

OP posts:
YouSetTheTone · 08/01/2022 07:33

@WandaWomblesaurus73

At what point were the public consulted on men being put into women's prisons?

Have Stonewall put policies in place in institutions without the public being consulted?

I nearly corrected my previous post as I realised afterwards that although different questions asked of society might have had different results -we’d never even been consulted anyway so it was a moot point.

None of this has been done in consultation with the public - and least of all with women’s groups, who have actively been shut out of discussions with Stonewall. #nodebate has a lot to answer for.

334bu · 08/01/2022 08:42

At what point were the public consulted on men being put into women's prisons?

At no point, at least in Scotland, were the needs of female prisoners ever considered; no equality impact assessment ever considered their needs, no serving frontline staff were ever consulted and definitely no consultation with female prisoners themselves.

WineAway · 08/01/2022 08:51

& even worse here in Ireland. The public were never consulted on self ID. It was pushed in under the radar.

thegreenlight · 08/01/2022 09:20

A system open to abuse - prisoners identify as female to get into women’s prisons, then revert when they are out. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-prisoners-switch-gender-again-once-freed-from-womens-units-qjjsd0nlx

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2022 09:52

Wow, no one ever saw that coming.

334bu · 08/01/2022 11:58

It should also be noted that the Scottish Prisons policy on transgender prisoners was made up by mostly trans lobbying groups with no input from any group representing women. Moreover,the input of the Prison Service should have been reviewed given that the person on the policy group was later arrested for possession of child abuse pornography.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/prison-officer-facing-jail-after-9576200

Lovelyricepudding · 08/01/2022 12:00

Have Stonewall put policies in place in institutions without the public being consulted?

Yes and not just prisons, hospital wards too including secure mental health wards where one male raped another patient causing her severe injuries.

Have a listen to the Nolan Podcasts - they give a flavour of the influence Stonewall have had for years at the BBC.

OhWhyNot · 08/01/2022 12:09

YANBU

Of course it shouldn’t happen. I am for separate facilities for trans women I can guarantee a number will soon cease to be trans women

I know of a trans women in a secure hospital who is pushing to be transferred to a female setting. It’s not happening. I hope it stays that way but with e nonsense agenda I feel this may change as they could be at risk when they move on in a male hostel it’s doesn’t seem to matter that women shall be at risk from him if he goes to a female hostel but as we are all being made aware male needs trump female safety

Lovelyricepudding · 08/01/2022 12:10

Last year the Scottish parliament voted to allow female rape victims to request that their internal injuries caused by their aggressive male rapists are examined for evidence purposes by another female rather than a man declares he is a woman. The SNP voted for it at last minute only because it was such a blatant and egregious assault on women that they couldn't avoid it. However Nicola Sturgeon felt so bad about doing so that she recorded a tearful apology to transwomen for doing this. She cared more about men who want to destroy women's boundaries, rights to privacy and compassion after terrifying and violent assaults than she does about those women who have suffered such an assault.

OhWhyNot · 08/01/2022 12:35

So no acknowledgement for the women that had been raped and had to pursue this adding to their trauma

Just an acknowledgment that some males may have felt upset over their feelings not being put first

Ffs

WandaWomblesaurus73 · 08/01/2022 13:48

@Lovelyricepudding

Have Stonewall put policies in place in institutions without the public being consulted?

Yes and not just prisons, hospital wards too including secure mental health wards where one male raped another patient causing her severe injuries.

Have a listen to the Nolan Podcasts - they give a flavour of the influence Stonewall have had for years at the BBC.

This is exactly why these discussions now need to be had outside of the feminism category on Mumsnet. These are policies that affect all women - given how many women on MN are caring for elderly parents for instance - the safeguarding of women and children should be a priority in women's discussions. My fear is that if we don't all wake up and speak up soon more and more lives will be ruined.
OP posts:
YouSetTheTone · 08/01/2022 14:46

@Lovelyricepudding

Last year the Scottish parliament voted to allow female rape victims to request that their internal injuries caused by their aggressive male rapists are examined for evidence purposes by another female rather than a man declares he is a woman. The SNP voted for it at last minute only because it was such a blatant and egregious assault on women that they couldn't avoid it. However Nicola Sturgeon felt so bad about doing so that she recorded a tearful apology to transwomen for doing this. She cared more about men who want to destroy women's boundaries, rights to privacy and compassion after terrifying and violent assaults than she does about those women who have suffered such an assault.
Horrific. Furthermore, if I am piecing things together correctly, someone who objected publicly to the fact that the Scottish parliament voted that women should be allowed to request a female examiner after being sexually assaulted went on to become the CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre.

That person is a man who got the job as CEO despite the fact it was advertised as a role for a woman.

Lovelyricepudding · 08/01/2022 23:05

YouSetTheTone yes indeed and that same individual called rape victims who might 'object' (aka suffer a trauma response) to males who identified as women counselling them or attending group 'women's' sessions for their PTSD from rape as bigots who needing educating to reframe their trauma. He also was not bothered by the fact female rape victims self-excluded from rape crisis services due to these men.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/01/2022 03:05

Transcript of a film by Fox Fisher and Owl. This is during MW's previous job at Forth Valley Rape Crisis.

Fox Fisher: I'm here in Stirling to meet Mridal Wadwha, who is a trans woman who also runs a rape crisis centre. Let's go say hello.

Mridul Wadwha: I am Mridul Wadwha. I am trans and a Piscean. A mother. A wife. Half zoroastrian, half Hindu. I'm an immigrant. I run a rape crisis centre. I'm a feminist. I'm a boss. And I speak my mind even when I shouldn't.

FF: Mridul, tell me a bit about where we are and how you came about to work here.

MW: This is the Forth Valley Rape Crisis Centre and I am the Manager. So the centre works with anyone over the age of thirteen who has experienced sexual violence. And anyone who is affected by it. The centre is part of the rape crisis movement. We are a woman only space in the sense that only women work in the centre. Although we work with anyone who's been affected respective of gender identity. I think one of the key things that I'm proud of that has happened in this movement is the increased awareness about forced marriage in Scotland. And how we worked pretty hard to make sure that the law was implemented effectively. Most of our services, violence against women services, largely cater to white, cis women. But there are others that do naturally come to our spaces. You can't expect people to know that you are inclusive if you're not explicit of your inclusion. So, I think our journey around inclusion as a violence against women movement is ... we are getting there, but I think there are some key things that we have to do. And consistently, because equality is too fragile. I spend most of my life thinking about the status of minority ethnic women and migrant women in particular. Any minority who experiences oppression, you expect to be treated badly wherever you go. So you steel yourself up for that. So when you say: "We are inclusive" .. well. you have to show what you are doing not to treat people badly. Can you connect with people's humanity? For me it is an investment in attitude. We need to expose ourselves to difference so that difference is normal. We just dare not to think of ourselves as different.

FF: Is there a personal reason for getting into this line of work?

MW: Staying on has been personal because it is pretty clear to me that I was the only transwoman in the women's aid movement. And I wasn't even sure that if I had been hired, if they had known that I was trans. When I came out individually to various colleagues, there was this disbelief: "Oh, you can't be trans". You know, what does a trans person look like? What does a cis woman look like? How do we know? Over a period of time it became more and more important within my work in this movement to be a transwoman. My activism wasn't around trans activism because really what mattered to me more was my status as an immigrant woman and the women I worked with who came from immigrant backgrounds. It means I've had the opportunity to deliver training across this country and so invariably I would come out in all of my training, not just for people to change their perception of what an immigrant woman looks like or who she is, but also what a transperson looks like. So I think staying in it has become a personal thing.

FF: So tell me what it was like growing up for you and who was the first transperson you met?

MW: So I grew up in India. To me now I would say it was like living in a war zone. And it really came home to me, I really understood when people started speaking about the civil war in Syria and the use of snipers. That's the analogy I use. A sniper would hit me every day, multiple times. From name calling to sexual violence, all of that happened, all the time. When I became an adult, when I began to think a lot more practically and seriously about my transition it was empowering to have grown up in a country where there is a recognition of the third gender or the non-binary in a sense. A transperson I identified with? I don't think I ever met one. I didn't have any resources, I didn't know where to go. And then I remember that I chanced upon this article. A journalist had written an article about how they had set up a helpline for transpeople. So I went to meet this journalist and they put
me in touch with the local hospital's psychiatric unit. It was a complete nightmare, where this guy essentially told me "I don't believe you're trans because you would have insisted on going to a girls' school. Why did you go to a boys' school?" And all that sort of shit. It was like 'I am trans I'm not stupid'. But eventually I found some doctors elsewhere in a different city, but it was so expensive and trying to find a job and keep a job was a challenge. So when I was 17-18 and I made a decision after a failed suicide attempt. I wanted to thrive. I just didn't want to ... manage. So I think coming to that decision was very transformative. I just said to people: "This is who I am, take it or leave it." I got two gifts. One was that I grew up in a household where my parents, not in any every day way ever told me not to be who I was, this effeminate child. But I also grew up to a spiritual outlook that doesn't have a concept of guilt in the same way. I think that has been the biggest gift. I don't know what it feels like to be guilty or ashamed of who you are. I have been lucky somehow to find myself in places where I was able to influence. And I think it is therefore important if you have been given this opportunity by fate to use that effectively. It's a responsibility to be your honest and true self at all times. I have the gift of being the eternal minority. From growing up in a mixed faith background to being a transwoman; to being a person of colour here, and a migrant. What is important for me therefore in doing this work is to try and do something to make sure that others who come after me can come on their own merit. But I think what is most important right now is for more diverse voices to be heard. Whether it is the survivors of sexual violence, or my colleagues who do a lot better work than I do. I need to make sure that my colleagues who I manage here, that their ideas really come to fruition. That is the most important reason why I do this work. What I am really interested in is to make sure everyone that goes through here feels that they have a opportunity to express what is really going on for them. That's why it is important, because this movement, particularly the feminist women's movement that is built on the history of so many women who have transformed. One of the dangers of being in this movement sometimes is that we don't know when to let more people sit around the table. And I think I do know the importance of it. Because I just don't want to be the token trans BAME woman in Scotland for many things in many spaces. Hopefully that will not be forever, and hopefully people won't call me to speak at events anymore. Because I think that is important too. We have to become redundant. That's why it's important.

[A film by Fox Fisher and Owl]

334bu · 09/01/2022 07:29

It should also be pointed out that the Scottish Greens and the Scottish Lib Dem MSPs all voted against women being allowed to request a same sex medical examiner.

WandaWomblesaurus73 · 09/01/2022 14:57

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Transcript of a film by Fox Fisher and Owl. This is during MW's previous job at Forth Valley Rape Crisis.

Fox Fisher: I'm here in Stirling to meet Mridal Wadwha, who is a trans woman who also runs a rape crisis centre. Let's go say hello.

Mridul Wadwha: I am Mridul Wadwha. I am trans and a Piscean. A mother. A wife. Half zoroastrian, half Hindu. I'm an immigrant. I run a rape crisis centre. I'm a feminist. I'm a boss. And I speak my mind even when I shouldn't.

FF: Mridul, tell me a bit about where we are and how you came about to work here.

MW: This is the Forth Valley Rape Crisis Centre and I am the Manager. So the centre works with anyone over the age of thirteen who has experienced sexual violence. And anyone who is affected by it. The centre is part of the rape crisis movement. We are a woman only space in the sense that only women work in the centre. Although we work with anyone who's been affected respective of gender identity. I think one of the key things that I'm proud of that has happened in this movement is the increased awareness about forced marriage in Scotland. And how we worked pretty hard to make sure that the law was implemented effectively. Most of our services, violence against women services, largely cater to white, cis women. But there are others that do naturally come to our spaces. You can't expect people to know that you are inclusive if you're not explicit of your inclusion. So, I think our journey around inclusion as a violence against women movement is ... we are getting there, but I think there are some key things that we have to do. And consistently, because equality is too fragile. I spend most of my life thinking about the status of minority ethnic women and migrant women in particular. Any minority who experiences oppression, you expect to be treated badly wherever you go. So you steel yourself up for that. So when you say: "We are inclusive" .. well. you have to show what you are doing not to treat people badly. Can you connect with people's humanity? For me it is an investment in attitude. We need to expose ourselves to difference so that difference is normal. We just dare not to think of ourselves as different.

FF: Is there a personal reason for getting into this line of work?

MW: Staying on has been personal because it is pretty clear to me that I was the only transwoman in the women's aid movement. And I wasn't even sure that if I had been hired, if they had known that I was trans. When I came out individually to various colleagues, there was this disbelief: "Oh, you can't be trans". You know, what does a trans person look like? What does a cis woman look like? How do we know? Over a period of time it became more and more important within my work in this movement to be a transwoman. My activism wasn't around trans activism because really what mattered to me more was my status as an immigrant woman and the women I worked with who came from immigrant backgrounds. It means I've had the opportunity to deliver training across this country and so invariably I would come out in all of my training, not just for people to change their perception of what an immigrant woman looks like or who she is, but also what a transperson looks like. So I think staying in it has become a personal thing.

FF: So tell me what it was like growing up for you and who was the first transperson you met?

MW: So I grew up in India. To me now I would say it was like living in a war zone. And it really came home to me, I really understood when people started speaking about the civil war in Syria and the use of snipers. That's the analogy I use. A sniper would hit me every day, multiple times. From name calling to sexual violence, all of that happened, all the time. When I became an adult, when I began to think a lot more practically and seriously about my transition it was empowering to have grown up in a country where there is a recognition of the third gender or the non-binary in a sense. A transperson I identified with? I don't think I ever met one. I didn't have any resources, I didn't know where to go. And then I remember that I chanced upon this article. A journalist had written an article about how they had set up a helpline for transpeople. So I went to meet this journalist and they put
me in touch with the local hospital's psychiatric unit. It was a complete nightmare, where this guy essentially told me "I don't believe you're trans because you would have insisted on going to a girls' school. Why did you go to a boys' school?" And all that sort of shit. It was like 'I am trans I'm not stupid'. But eventually I found some doctors elsewhere in a different city, but it was so expensive and trying to find a job and keep a job was a challenge. So when I was 17-18 and I made a decision after a failed suicide attempt. I wanted to thrive. I just didn't want to ... manage. So I think coming to that decision was very transformative. I just said to people: "This is who I am, take it or leave it." I got two gifts. One was that I grew up in a household where my parents, not in any every day way ever told me not to be who I was, this effeminate child. But I also grew up to a spiritual outlook that doesn't have a concept of guilt in the same way. I think that has been the biggest gift. I don't know what it feels like to be guilty or ashamed of who you are. I have been lucky somehow to find myself in places where I was able to influence. And I think it is therefore important if you have been given this opportunity by fate to use that effectively. It's a responsibility to be your honest and true self at all times. I have the gift of being the eternal minority. From growing up in a mixed faith background to being a transwoman; to being a person of colour here, and a migrant. What is important for me therefore in doing this work is to try and do something to make sure that others who come after me can come on their own merit. But I think what is most important right now is for more diverse voices to be heard. Whether it is the survivors of sexual violence, or my colleagues who do a lot better work than I do. I need to make sure that my colleagues who I manage here, that their ideas really come to fruition. That is the most important reason why I do this work. What I am really interested in is to make sure everyone that goes through here feels that they have a opportunity to express what is really going on for them. That's why it is important, because this movement, particularly the feminist women's movement that is built on the history of so many women who have transformed. One of the dangers of being in this movement sometimes is that we don't know when to let more people sit around the table. And I think I do know the importance of it. Because I just don't want to be the token trans BAME woman in Scotland for many things in many spaces. Hopefully that will not be forever, and hopefully people won't call me to speak at events anymore. Because I think that is important too. We have to become redundant. That's why it's important.

[A film by Fox Fisher and Owl]

This is absolutely shocking.
OP posts:
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/01/2022 17:42

This reply has been deleted

This post has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/01/2022 17:47

Another interview, this time with a student newspaper.

extract

Content warning: mentions of sexual assault and rape. Sexual violence is a sensitive, yet current issue that affects thousands of women on a yearly basis. Whilst crime rates in Scotland are decreasing, sexually based crimes have been on an upward trend since 1974.

Rape crisis centres are just one way a survivor can seek help after experiencing sexual violence of any kind. Mridul Wadhwa is a manager at the Forth Valley Rape Crisis Centre, dedicated to helping individuals overcome trauma. The Student had the opportunity to speak to Wadhwa about her experiences working with rape and sexual assault survivors.

“I think the biggest myth [of sexual violence] is ‘stranger danger,’” Wadhwa commented. “All messages are usually about being safe when you’re outside – and yes there is a minor risk for women to experience sexual assault from strangers – but the reality is that most of the time it comes from someone they know, including their acquaintance. The other myth is that your body may react in a physical way to sexual violence including an orgasm but that does not mean that it’s not rape because that’s a physical response. You can’t control how your body responds to violence.”

The work is incredibly emotionally draining, so Wadhwa has to be balanced and mindful of her own emotional state. The Student asked her what she does to take care of herself: “Well I don’t deal with individual survivors every day, so for me what I do in terms of self-care is a lot of avoidance. I do see survivors – four a week usually – who help me stay connected to the cause…but it’s important to keep it fun. We should be able to laugh and use humour atwork.In terms of my team, I try to cook for them once a week or every other week.”

Beyond that, she recommends debriefing: “By talking about what it’s like for you, you are creating that distance and also you remind yourself that the survivors who come to our centre have other lives outside of the centre.”

Most importantly, rape crisis centres are spaces for those affected by sexual violence, most of whom are women. The Student asked Wadhwa if she believes a man could be a successful rape crisis centre manager. She does not: “I don’t think men are ready to go out and set up services of this nature. Women’s aid organisations and rape crisis centres have been set up with the blood, sweat, and tears of women. It’s about the women’s experience of sexual violence. Our workforce is reserved for women only.”

Recognising that it is not only women who are affected by sexual violence, Wadhwa’s centre is a feminist organisation with adhering values. To Wadhwa that means “ensuring that inequalities are highlighted and when people are in our centre they’re experiencing equality service that is focused on their needs as they describe them. Also, it’s focused on putting into context the violence women and girls experience in the wider inequalities of their lives. If there are male survivors, they need to be acknowledged as survivors. The patriarchy impacts their experience as well.”

“It’s about thinking of equality at all times and obviously a part of it is about women’s equality because women are always grappling with gender inequality whether it is in the workforce or in their experience of gender based violence or violence against women and girls it’s not just what happens in terms of the abuse but also what happens afterwards. How do they experience the system particularity if they’re engaging in the criminal justice system and the inequalities that surface there.

“As a service provider there aresome intersections that we need to consider. We offer a person-centred service which means we look at the individual and their needs. But the reality is that we are working in an environment where people are not thinking about minorities. As a manager, I need to think like do we have to hire an interpreter. Or just yesterday we were having a conversation if our space is welcoming to people with autism and what we can do to make that space more welcoming. Who they are as people also comes up in support sessions and can be a barrier to not accessing our service.”

In our conversation, Wadhwa mentioned the lack of control survivors experience, even after the traumatic event: “It is a very disempowering experience when you report to the police because it is a big shift in the understanding of being a victim. They are actually powerless in it. There are some areas where they might be able to influence but it’s very, very minute.”

Perhaps the largest source of power survivors can claim is their ability to come forward and relate their story if they so choose. Yet many times they are not believed. The Student asked Wadhwa why it is important to believe a survivor: “Think about how much time is wasted arguing about whether we should believe sexual assault survivors but if you look at what a survivor who has come forward is setting themselves up to, why would they come forward and report it if it was not true? There might be a small percentage of false allegations but they’re nowhere near what our society thinks where they are.

“Just because somebody was not proven guilty doesn’t mean that they are not guilty because it’s about the quality of the evidence presented. The burden of proof is really hard, and it probably should be. I’m not going to debate that here but…we must stay away from doubting people.

“There might be a narrative in the disclosure of that experience that does not always add up because usually how we experience trauma is that we don’t always remember what happened to you and it’s not about the facts of the case. The rape crisis centre is there to listen to those who wanna talk about it and to recover from it. I mean what does one gain from lying about it.”

Having sexual violence disclosed to you can certainly be a challenging experience. Dealing with sensitive matters is just that – sensitive – and requires much thought and attention. The Student asked Wadhwa how she would recommend a friend or loved one reacted if violence was disclosed to them: “Try not to dig holes in people’s stories. This is not a logical narrative of an experience – it is the emotional narrative of an experience. People might not always remember what happened.

“Try to stay away from the idea of what they could have done to stay safe or even what you could have done as a friend to keep your friend safe. It is my belief that we don’t put ourselves in these positions. It is the perpetrator who decided to be violent. It is not a choice that we made. The message that we should be telling our friends who have disclosed this to us is that it is never their fault.

“Another thing that we should be thinking about is what happened after the disclosure. The whole decision as to what happens after the disclosure is up to the survivor. They should remain in complete control of that experience and as a friend I would recommend that you enable that control. Whether they report to the police or not is their decision.

“Sometimes a disclosure from a friend can be triggering for you in case you had those experiences. My advice would be to use rape crisis centres because they are not just for survivors. They are also for friends and family of those who have had a traumatic experience because it does take a lot of your to support someone who has gone through trauma. There is often guilt associated with wanting to ask for help when your friend is in greater need but for them to support them appropriately and effectively you have to be in a good place yourself. That’s why rape crisis centres support you.”

Rape crisis centres also offer sexual violence prevention education programs. Wadhwa’s centre is part of a national prevention program through education scheme. They offer a series of workshops hoping that young people become educated on different topics like gender and pornography.

YouSetTheTone · 09/01/2022 18:39

In our conversation, Wadhwa mentioned the lack of control survivors experience, even after the traumatic event: “It is a very disempowering experience when you report to the police because it is a big shift in the understanding of being a victim. They are actually powerless in it. There are some areas where they might be able to influence but it’s very, very minute.”

How does MW square this with the fact he supports the fact that women should refer to their rapists as ‘she’ (if the rapist demands) - further reducing the ways women are able to influence their experience after reporting it?

There are so many offensive things that MW said but I find this really highlights how little thought, care or regard he has about any of the consequences of the ideology he promotes.

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