To think that men shouldn't be named as women in newspapers if they have committed sexual offences?

[WandaWomblesaurus73]

Just that really - I'm seeing more and more newspaper reports where women are being implicated in weird sexual crimes and the you see the picture and it's obviously a man.

Now I totally get that if someone is transitioning it's polite to call them by their preferred name etc - but AIBU to think that some of these criminals are just taking the piss?

Here are some recent examples - and there are loads more.

www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/19802592.northwich-woman-jailed-cocaine-fuelled-sex-dog/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10339797/amp/Thumb-sucking-paedophile-claims-identify-five-year-old-girl-comes-court-dressed-ELF.html

How can anyone think this is ok? And will these "women" end up in women's prisons out of politeness?

YANBU.

And 'being kind' seems something only women are asked to be, especially when handing over their rights to entitled western men.
"Ssshh. Don't make a fuss. It's much easier" (as the enemy said soothingly, while cutting the US soldier's throat in 'Saving Private Ryan ')

Prisons are not nice places, they're not meant to be nice places, the fear of getting locked up with a transgender rapist for 23 hours a day serves as a good deterrent not to be sent to prison in the first place. I don't want them to abuse a female prisoner, I don't want them to abuse anyone - but if they do, better their victim be a prisoner than a normal person.

That's one of the most inhumane, revolting things I've ever read on here.

Those female prisoners ARE normal people. They're human beings. Someone's daughter, sister, mother.

Wanting to use the threat of rape as a deterrent

Vile.

@NecessaryScene

Further, I enquire what is the purpose and deterrent of prison for rapists, if they know that their punishment for raping women will be access to a enclosed community of women who cannot escape?

I saw this on Twitter the other day (via Ovarit):

a lesbian woman i came into contact with through my work was raped by a trans identified male over the holiday weekend, after she turned them down. she sobbed telling me she can bear to report it because they will lock him up with other women.

I'd rather feared that would be a likely outcome of these policies. That poor, poor woman.

@MarshmallowFondant

Disagree.

Naming these people as women, and referring to them as "she" or "her", along with a picture of the perpetrator, will drive it home to people how the whole idea of self-identification is fundamentally flawed and puts women at serious risk.

Unfortunately its skewing the statistics. There are suddenly many more violent and sex-offending women appearing in the courts. And - unlike occasions when they win swimming competitions - they are never referred to as transwomen - they are suddenly women. It's misogyny plain and simple #NotOurCrimes

Rape as punishment. What a lovely idea.

"I don't want them to abuse a female prisoner, I don't want them to abuse anyone - but if they do, better their victim be a prisoner than a normal person."
So
a) you don't think people in prisons are 'normal' and presumably therefore, expect you will never be one of them.
Good luck with that, under the current collapse of the UK judicial system
b) You don't want anyone to be abused, but if they have to be you are happy it should be a vulnerable woman by a predatory man?

I wonder what it's like to be you, @MorningStarling

@MorningStarling I'd report that post just for the pure horror of what living inside your head must be, but it's better it stands. Every light shone on the thinking of people who support this evil travesty helps to show exactly what it is. So gross.

Out of interest, do many of you talk openly about how you feel about this, or do you fear being called a TERF etc?

I think that post should also stay up so we can see the kind of attitude engendered by people who support these ridiculous prison rules hold.

I'm open in all ways that I don't think female people should be raped in the name of respecting male gender identity choice, yes.

I really would not have much time for the thoughts or judgements of anyone who thought otherwise. Would you?

@ppeony

Out of interest, do many of you talk openly about how you feel about this, or do you fear being called a TERF etc?

Every woman from every kind of background I know talks about it behind closed doors.

When JK Rowling talked about predatory male rapists and sexual offenders using Self ID as a way in to womens spaces she was threatened with rape and death.

Neil Gaiman, Phillip Pullman stuck the knife in. Owen Jones and Jameela Jamil cheered it on.

Courage calls to Courage.

Why can’t we just have four separate jail departments and statistics? One for women, one for men, one for transmen and one for transwomen?

Then we could keep everyone as safe as possible and also get some more statistics on what the crime rates are in each group. And which crimes each group tended to commit. Think that would be really useful data to have to continue this discussion.

Seems sensible to me, PumpkinGin!

@PumpkinGin that’s never going to happen due to costs.

Do we have prisons for Non Binary people? Of people who sometimes identify as a woman ir sometimes ad a man like Eddie Izzard?

Why can’t the recording of crimes be done on the basis of sex. Why can’t people go to the prison according to their sex.

Sex is immutable, it is coded into every cell of a body.

Why can’t we just have four separate jail departments and statistics?

They usually seem very reluctant to let stats out.

A cynic would suggest it's because they would show no tendency whatsoever for trans inmates to have opposite-sex offending behaviour.

There was some recent freedom-of-information success in the US which managed to determine that 50% of MtF prisoners in federal prison were convicted of sex offenses, compared to 4% of FtM.

And the total number of FtM prisoners is far smaller than the number of MtF, so that's much more than a 10:1 difference. (50% of the FtM in federal prison are for drug offenses).

Personally, I would actually be open to some suggestion that there might be a subset of males that somehow has "lady brains" such that they behave like females. I'm not philosophically against the possibility. It could conceivably happen. But you need to have evidence.

But all the actual empirical evidence - like prison stats - shows that it doesn't. Or at least if it does, the people calling themselves "transwomen" don't have that characteristic. They're very, very male-behaving. They would have to commit about 50 times fewer sex offenses than they actually do to convince me they're somehow "female gendered".

Why can’t we just have four separate jail departments and statistics?

We don't need to. There are only two sexes, two sets of prisons are all we need.

Oh, and that wouldn't be good for validating a feminine identity as no different to actually inhabiting a female body.

It's a frigging disgrace.

This is where Transgender allying and preferred pronouns have led us.

Don't be a bleating ally if you are a woman and refuse to engage with preferred pronouns-they are one more cobble on the road to hell for women.

It is time to stop this shite. if you are born with a cock and one x chromosome then you are a man.

Yes, women in prison will be raped and assaulted because of this and any woman who thinks that is in any way acceptable is an unnatural monster.

@PumpkinGin

Why can’t we just have four separate jail departments and statistics? One for women, one for men, one for transmen and one for transwomen?

Then we could keep everyone as safe as possible and also get some more statistics on what the crime rates are in each group. And which crimes each group tended to commit. Think that would be really useful data to have to continue this discussion.

@PumpkinGin

Sit down, have a gin and take a deep breath before digesting what I am about to write.

There are only two sexes: male and female. Waters don't need to be muddied and smoke screens generated.

Two sexes-that's it. It was ever so and, when this moment of twattery has passed, it will be ever thus again.

There are only two sexes

Well, I think that gender identity is very important as well and I want to be respectful of people identifying as a certain gender. Or as non binary.

But I just don’t really understand these crime statistics. And I think there clearly is an argument for a separate space for transwomen and transmen. Everyone needs their privacy.

As for statistics, I have read quite a few articles about transwomen and sex crimes recently and it is very possible that this is just a skewed picture of reality. That is why it is so important to collect proper facts and proper data.

Necessary, that is all good with the statistics, but how can you tell that those offenders really were transwomen and not just men pretending to be transwomen?

Be respectful towards your own sex first and foremost as it is always almost women that end up paying the price for gender identity.

Well, I think that gender identity is very important as well and I want to be respectful of people identifying as a certain gender. Or as non binary

"Gender identity" is made up twaddle. Why on earth do you think it's very important? Sex is important as it's the basis of female subjugation - if you want to be respectful to women it's sex first and foremost.

I respect what people say they are. We can all be respectful and civil to one another’s

But I don’t agree that anyone automatically should be able to get into women’s spaces by claiming they are a woman. They could be a male sexual predator.

I do think transwomen need to be kept safe too. Life can be hard for so many people. That is why I suggest a separate space for transwomen.

But I really want to understand these statistics better. I want to know what the offending rates are for women, transwomen, men and transmen. And I want to know for which crimes. It is really important to get the right information in order to be able to understand issues better. And I also want to understand how to tell genuine transwomen from men pretending to be transwomen.

There is no way of understanding statistics if men are recorded as women and women are recorded as men.

@PumpkinGin have you answered your own question

How do we tell who isa ‘genuine’ trans woman & who is a predatory male? Is there a test? Can we see into their womanly essence?

Gender is all about regressive stereotypes.

Aren’t there more than 80 genders now?

If a told you I was a unicorn would you respect my identity?