Standing by your spouse when SC are involved

[Sweetchillidiphigh]

I know mumsnet is generally anti step parent and pro step child. No matter what. Now everything I’ve seen with regards marital advice with blended families is that your spouse must be number 1. Now I can understand how that may be extremely hard when your DC are still children but when they reach adulthood, should SC expect to be prioritised over their step parent? And should a parent stand by their spouse or child?
YABU = Spouse comes first
YANBU = Adult child comes first

To be clear, in the scenario set out here, the ‘yeilding’ would be to the 30 year old daughter. It would be her father saying: yes. You’re more important to me. I’ll leave my wife because you don’t like her. Even though I think you’re behaving dreadfully.

No child should have that kind of power over their parents. Whatever age they are.

I think a lot of people have missed she’s an adult, it’s a bit buried. Also, a bit of context would be helpful - what’s happened?

Step child or not at the age of 30 they surely know how to be respectful and civil if she can not then I would cut her lose. If dh can not understand his adult daughter is being a mare then you have dh problems.

YOU NEED TO TELL US WHAT HAPPENED/ WHAT THINGS SHE HAS DONE.

SHOUTING BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN ASKED SEVERAL TIMES AND NOT GIVEN AN ANSWER

@BurntToastAgain

To be clear, in the scenario set out here, the ‘yeilding’ would be to the 30 year old daughter. It would be her father saying: yes. You’re more important to me. I’ll leave my wife because you don’t like her. Even though I think you’re behaving dreadfully.

No child should have that kind of power over their parents. Whatever age they are.

The OP's take is that a 30 year old woman is saying to her Dad "you must leave your wife".

Is that actually happening?

If it is actually happening, what's the story behind it?

We're getting one side here. The wife's. So far she's reluctant to outline the behaviour that led to her husband's child being barred from his home.

There's always more than one side to a story.

That’s not the response you’d give if it were her MIL, is it? Because it’s an adult child, you insist the OP must be in the wrong.

It’s an online discussion forum. You only ever get one person’s side.

"It’s an online discussion forum. You only ever get one person’s side."

Tbf the op does usually explain what's happened so some sort of informed opinion can be made.

IMO, not doing so does make op look like she's overreacting to something she doesn't want to tell mn about.

@BurntToastAgain

That’s not the response you’d give if it were her MIL, is it? Because it’s an adult child, you insist the OP must be in the wrong.

It’s an online discussion forum. You only ever get one person’s side.

Where have you ever seen me slag off someone's mother in law? I'll tell you, nowhere, because it's never happened.

The reason for this is because I recognise that there are always at least two sides to every story, just like there is here.

You're starting to embarrass yourself now. You've tried diagnosing me as a narcissist and making personal attacks on what you think you know about me but this just shows who you are and what tactics you employ.

Why can't you simply accept that someone may have a different opinion to you?

@Cherrytart23

Step child or not at the age of 30 they surely know how to be respectful and civil if she can not then I would cut her lose. If dh can not understand his adult daughter is being a mare then you have dh problems.

Would you cut your own child lose if they were being disrespectful?

Characterising your adult sd's insecurity in her relationship with her father as "bad behaviour" is infantilising, and I wonder if, if you were being honest, might understand where her insecurity has come from? I cannot believe her father had no role in their relationship developing into one where she does not feel secure in his affections.

You seem determined to see her as an enemy to compete with rather than a family member you want to get along better with. Can you try to find things to like about her?

I wouldn't put up with anyone – adult relative or step relative or complete stranger for that matter – come into my home, treat and speak to me like shit and expect that somebody, somewhere is going to have their back and say it's OK and they have done nothing wrong.

Step-child or not you shouldn't be treated like crap and have a grown ass woman behaving like a brat stamping and pulling a hissy fit.

@PinniGig

I wouldn't put up with anyone – adult relative or step relative or complete stranger for that matter – come into my home, treat and speak to me like shit and expect that somebody, somewhere is going to have their back and say it's OK and they have done nothing wrong.

Step-child or not you shouldn't be treated like crap and have a grown ass woman behaving like a brat stamping and pulling a hissy fit.

That's not what's happening. The daughter is already banned from her father's home. He is not happy with her "bad behaviour".

However, it seems he is maintaining a relationship with her (because she is his daughter and he loves her) and the OP feels this is a betrayal of her, that he should take her side of the argument and disown her.

You're starting to embarrass yourself now. You've tried diagnosing me as a narcissist and making personal attacks on what you think you know about me but this just shows who you are and what tactics you employ.

I haven’t tried diagnosing you as a narcissist. you brought up narcissists. And the (deeply ironically) made several points that were more like narcissism than the ones you were claiming to be narcissistic.

What I will say is that I think you feel very strongly about this and that your responses on here suggest that you might not have sufficiently robust comprehension skills to follow the discussion with any nuance. Do you know what a personal attack actually is?

No one has diagnosed you as anything. There’s a difference between pointing out that the claims you are making are more like narcissism than the people you are calling narcissistic for not seeing their children as extensions of themselves and saying that you are a narcissist yourself.

Just as (to be clear) there is a difference between calling you stupid and saying that your responses here look like you’re struggling to understand the points that @aSofaNearYou was making, in particular. She was perfectly clear (I’m willing to believe that I was not).

This is the same problematic logic you would apply where you take any (legitimate) criticism of your children as a personal slight. And you said you would. It’s not. It’s a comment on their behaviour or something else about them.

There may be ‘two sides to the story’. But you appear to be siding with the other one automatically. And making extremely emotive and judgemental comments about anyone who might feel differently to you.

Do you realise that’s what you are doing?

@Stompythedinosaur

Characterising your adult sd's insecurity in her relationship with her father as "bad behaviour" is infantilising, and I wonder if, if you were being honest, might understand where her insecurity has come from? I cannot believe her father had no role in their relationship developing into one where she does not feel secure in his affections.

You seem determined to see her as an enemy to compete with rather than a family member you want to get along better with. Can you try to find things to like about her?

Arguably, insisting that it’s ‘insecurity’ or whatever euphemism might be appropriate for a 7 year old who is behaving badly seems more infantilising than just saying that she is behaving badly.

As an adult, you go to counselling and deal with that insecurity. You don’t expect the world to make allowances for you and to put up with abusive behaviour (which is what bad behaviour in an adult often is).

This thread is rather circuitous.

Nobody is saying the sd should be allowed to behave badly with impunity.

But whether being banned from her fathers home forever, and 'never forgiven', is a reasonable response rather depends on the crime. And we don't currently know what that is.

So all a bit moot really, unless op comes back I suppose.

@BurntToastAgain

One of us is making lengthy posts and jumping to conclusions.

One of us has suggested the other is a narcissist and lacks basic comprehension skills, oh, and has no empathy (let's not forget that personal attack).

You suggest I am overly invested.

Do you see what YOU'RE doing?

(Don't worry if you don't, everyone else can see it).

@LublinToDublin

It's not a generic question with a single answer.

Well put, it really isn't straightforward and cases will vary.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou myself and other people who have just read the whole thread can see you don't understand the nuances in the discussion you are having with other posters.

They aren't attacking you or calling you names.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou That's not what's happening. The daughter is already banned from her father's home. He is not happy with her "bad behaviour".However, it seems he is maintaining a relationship with her (because she is his daughter and he loves her) and the OP feels this is a betrayal of her, that he should take her side of the argument and disown her

That's not what I meant or thought was happening. OP said her adult stepdaughter was awful to her and then expected her father to prioritise and side with her as well.

Can't say I'm particularly on board or supportive of any ultimatums and pressure to pick a side of the fence and sit on it - not in any situation like that to be honest. Step families can be a nightmare at the best of times but I have always drawn the line at being expected to tolerate bollocks and nonsense on the grounds that they're technically family and so should be given a bit more leeway.

My point was it's not acceptable for any grown adult to treat you appallingly regardless of who they are and whether it's a relative or otherwise. There is no doubt a much bigger story but my reply was solely in response to the first post, that's all.

[quote RedWingBoots]@SleepOhHowIMissYou myself and other people who have just read the whole thread can see you don't understand the nuances in the discussion you are having with other posters.

They aren't attacking you or calling you names.[/quote]
Perhaps you would be so kind as to explain to me what I'm missing.

My understanding of the situation is that the OP's step daughter has done something that means she is barred from her father's home. We don't know what. OP hasn't said.

However, OP feels that he is betraying her by continuing a relationship with someone so disrespectful to her. She feels he should take her side over his own daughter.

And that's it. There's no further info from the OP, just conjecture from other posters.

So, in small words please, what do I not understand?

@RedWingBoots @BurntToastAgain @aSofaNearYou

No reply? Or perhaps you think your answer will go over my head too?

Shall we add gas-lighting to the personal attacks too now?

To clarify. I have been accused of not viewing my children as separate to myself, therefore I must be a narcissist. Of course my children are separate to me. In fact, if you look at my posting history (as I guess Burnt Toast has as they seem to know me so well) you will see that I posted previously that Kahlil Gibran's poem "On Children" is my favourite because it sums up exactly how I feel about my kids. However, as individual as they are, my children remain my priority, even as adults. Therefore, I could not love a person who hated and treated my children badly. In short, make an enemy of my children, make an enemy of me too.

As for spouses being replaceable. I believe the stats show that over 2 in 5 marriages end in divorce. To expand on the gas-lighting, Sofa and BurntToast have decided that my observation that some men will take the easy (narcissistic) route to ensure they get regular sex and dinner on the table is a reflection on how I see marriage myself. To clarify, it's an observation of behaviour I have actually observed in some men.

And you plowing in RedWingBoots, mentioning "others" like there's some big PM group discussing me and you're all in agreement that I am indeed lacking in comprehension skills.

I pity you all. Don't kid yourself that people reading this can't see your gears working.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou have you considered that we haven't replied because we were in bed, or simply doing something else, rather than that we were stunned to silence by the brilliance of your answer?

You've accused me of a lot of things I haven't said there. I am not part of a hive mind with the two other posters, we are three seperate people who all disagree with you. It's all a bit dramatic talking about people "seeing my gears working". I haven't done anything, I've just disagreed with you.

As to your actual points, it's a bit odd that you're now trying to claim you were just talking about what other, narcissistic men do in regards viewing their relationship as replaceable and superficial, when you quite clearly said YOU think it is narcissistic to prioritise dinner on your table and sex. They were your views.

You also quite clearly said you view your children as a part of you, so hating them would be hating you. Posters aren't gaslighting you, you said that. You seem intent on reframing the debate to focus on situations where it's your spouse treating your children badly, which is very obviously different. There is a huge difference between "I would hate someone that disliked my children and treated them badly" and "I would hate someone that disliked my children because they treated them badly". The first is very logical, the second is wildly unreasonable.

@aSofaNearYou ...and yet I am the one with poor comprehension skills? 😀 I have given the context of my statements. If you cannot understand that when I say that I couldn't love someone who hated my children then I am directly referring to the OP's situation (where an adult step daughter is banned from her father's home for bad behaviour) then I really can't help you further. I also gave the context to the behaviour I have observed in some men, which also didn't fit your agenda.

Throughout you have jumped to conclusions about me, gaslighting and trying to twist my words to fit your own mindset (this person doesn't agree with me, but they are wrong because they are a narcissist, have low levels of comprehension and lack empathy, therefore I am right). You seem incapable of accepting any point other than your own so seek to discredit instead.

I repeat, I pity you.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou I went to bed.

While I do sometimes post late at night/early in the morning I actually went to sleep.

In your own posts you were stating that no matter what your children did they were your number one priority and should be placed above anyone else in your life particularly a spouse.

Your post reminded me of the recent conviction of this adult son who killed his step-father and paralysed his mother -
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-59725874

A further google revealed more detailed info e.g.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/17/how-alcohol-and-seething-resentment-turned-thomas-schreiber-to

Yes it is an extreme case but for some adult children parents simply can't do enough.

[quote SleepOhHowIMissYou]@aSofaNearYou ...and yet I am the one with poor comprehension skills? 😀 I have given the context of my statements. If you cannot understand that when I say that I couldn't love someone who hated my children then I am directly referring to the OP's situation (where an adult step daughter is banned from her father's home for bad behaviour) then I really can't help you further. I also gave the context to the behaviour I have observed in some men, which also didn't fit your agenda.

Throughout you have jumped to conclusions about me, gaslighting and trying to twist my words to fit your own mindset (this person doesn't agree with me, but they are wrong because they are a narcissist, have low levels of comprehension and lack empathy, therefore I am right). You seem incapable of accepting any point other than your own so seek to discredit instead.

I repeat, I pity you.[/quote]
Oh FGS, I can't even be bothered to reply to your paranoid nonsense.

You very obviously said the things you said, which you would be perfectly entitled to stand by but now you're for some reason backtracking, and bizarrely accusing people of gaslighting you for repeating the things YOU said. You're embarrassing yourself.