Standing by your spouse when SC are involved

[Sweetchillidiphigh]

I know mumsnet is generally anti step parent and pro step child. No matter what. Now everything I’ve seen with regards marital advice with blended families is that your spouse must be number 1. Now I can understand how that may be extremely hard when your DC are still children but when they reach adulthood, should SC expect to be prioritised over their step parent? And should a parent stand by their spouse or child?
YABU = Spouse comes first
YANBU = Adult child comes first

She's your step daughter. If she were posting on here, how would she explain why is she behaving like this? What does her father think are the explanations for her behaviour?

@BurntToastAgain @aSofaNearYou the situation being described here warrants an adult child being banned from the house. This doesn't seem to be enough because OP still thinks her husband is taking his daughter's side. Without knowing the context, what would be enough? Does he have to cut her off completely for OP to have "won" and be satisfied?

I do wonder what's she's done that's so heinous that the only answer is for her father to disown her completely?

Sofa, you say many things but this is not specific is it? I cannot think of anything big enough that would make me disown my own children. Not one thing.

[quote SleepOhHowIMissYou]**@BurntToastAgain* @aSofaNearYou* the situation being described here warrants an adult child being banned from the house. This doesn't seem to be enough because OP still thinks her husband is taking his daughter's side. Without knowing the context, what would be enough? Does he have to cut her off completely for OP to have "won" and be satisfied?

I do wonder what's she's done that's so heinous that the only answer is for her father to disown her completely?

Sofa, you say many things but this is not specific is it? I cannot think of anything big enough that would make me disown my own children. Not one thing.[/quote]
The reason I responded to your comment wasn't due to OPs situation, it was because your comment suggested parents will and should always forgive their adult children for anything, so I don't have much of a comment on why OP wants him to cut her off rather than just not see her at their house, if that's what she's said.

But in terms of what might drive me to that point as a parent, the obvious answer would be serious, malicious crimes like murder or rape. But there's also the less easily defined but still very plausible (and potentially relevant to this thread) possibility of them just being generally and consistently awful and abusive to those around them in a manner that is not short term and never improves.

My children will always come before anyone . Even my husband . Always .

It’s also possible to love your children but not like them or their behaviour. You can say to an adult child that you aren’t willing to be treated poorly (or have them treat other members of your household poorly) and that you aren’t willing to have them in the house if they aren’t willing to behave in a civil manner.

The OP says that the 30 year old daughter is making it a ‘her or me’ choice for her father.

The OP is entitled to have her home be a place where she is not abused and treated with contempt. No matter who is doing the abusing. Things are more difficult when it’s a child who comes into your home and treats you badly, but when it’s a 30 year old woman, it’s absolutely fine to say that you aren’t willing to have that in your house.

And (as is so often the case in stepfamilies), it does fall to the parent to put boundaries in place and have behavioural expectations for their child(ren). They cannot expect their partner to simply accept their children’s awful behaviour on the basis that ‘they’re my children. They’ll always come before you’. If they aren’t willing to do so, they deserve to be single and to deal with their adult children’s unpleasant behaviour all on their own.

If I thought it was ok to turn up at my mum’s house and treat my stepdad like shit, I’d expect to be told to leave. If I did it consistently, obviously I’d no longer be welcome. The onus would be on me to improve my behaviour if I wanted to be welcome there.

Just because you are related to someone, that doesn’t mean you are entitled to treat them poorly. Nor does it mean they should accept you doing so.

The difference in stepfamilies is often that only one of the people whose home it is is able to do anything about the children’s behaviour. Just as when your MIL is being a dick, it’s often difficult because only the person with the blood relationship can actually sort it out. You’re screwed if he doesn’t do anything on the basis that ‘she’s my mother/daughter/sister’. If it’s your shared child, you can tell them off and put the boundaries in place yourself. If it’s your stepchild, you are reliant on your partner doing so for you.

That is why people don’t respond to SC like their own children. Because they aren’t.

If your own children are behaving dreadfully, you shouldn’t just let them ‘because they’re my children’ either.

Arguably, not accepting poor behaviour from your grown up children and expecting better of them is showing them love.

Parenting is often about doing the hard thing. Sometimes that’s saying to a child that you won’t have that behaviour in your home. because you love them.

Accepting poor treatment from your children is not necessarily the loving thing to do.

Ultimately though. Given the choice, me or your child. The non narcissistic choice is the child. Spouses are replaceable. Children are not. He has clearly moved on from one marriage, why wouldn't he do so again.

It's all speculation because OP won't say what the step daughter has done that warrants her being disowned. I'm guessing she hasn't murdered or raped someone @aSofaNearYou. She's already banned from the house so what crime has she committed that her own father cannot have a relationship with her that is separate to the OP?

OP, why does he have to disown her to prove he loves you more?

I can’t really answer as it’s not a blanket rule, it depends on the situation.

My DF has been married 3 times and his last wife was absolutely vile to me. Lovely until they married then she suddenly switched with no obvious reason. I tried to get along with her but she made it very clear that I wasn’t welcome in her life or home.
After a while of only seeing me away from her, my df filed for divorce as she felt unable to live with someone who disliked me so much.

Would I expect to be put first if I had been a massive bitch? I hope not.

Problem is that you’ll both only be seeing it from your own side. She may believe you’re genuinely in the wrong too.

*He felt unable

@SleepOhHowIMissYou

Ultimately though. Given the choice, me or your child. The non narcissistic choice is the child. Spouses are replaceable. Children are not. He has clearly moved on from one marriage, why wouldn't he do so again.

It's all speculation because OP won't say what the step daughter has done that warrants her being disowned. I'm guessing she hasn't murdered or raped someone @aSofaNearYou. She's already banned from the house so what crime has she committed that her own father cannot have a relationship with her that is separate to the OP?

OP, why does he have to disown her to prove he loves you more?

I don't really see the narcissistic angle, nor do I see it as admirable to view your spouse as "replaceable", it certainly doesn't make you less narcissistic to view things that way.

I know she probably hasn't murdered or raped anyone, I said that because you asked me what a child could possibly do to make a parent disown them. But you've ignored my third example, which IS quite likely in OPs case, which is just being a consistently awful and abusive person to the people around you.

I agree that insisting that ‘spouses are replaceable’ is not the sign of a nice healthy, non-narcissistic attitude.

It's interesting how, on many MiL threads where the OP is being continually upset by the MiL, they are told "well I wouldn't let her in my house again!", yet an fully grown 30yr old SD is entitled to do what the hell she wants in the Op's home and receive no consequences for her actions according to some on here. MN is a funny old place at times.

@TimBoothseyes

It's interesting how, on many MiL threads where the OP is being continually upset by the MiL, they are told "well I wouldn't let her in my house again!", yet an fully grown 30yr old SD is entitled to do what the hell she wants in the Op's home and receive no consequences for her actions according to some on here. MN is a funny old place at times.

I haven't seen anyone say that there shouldn't be consequences.

Some PP have asked what the SD has done, to see whether it warrants such a reaction.

Some PP have said that talking in terms of 'never forgiving her' and banning her from the house forever and ever, without hope of redemption or attempt to resolve things, without trying to understand her point of view, seems harsh on the face of it.

Some PP have said what they might do if their adult child behaved badly.

Some PP have said - well she's been banned from the house and her dad is supporting you, so is that enough punishment or are you still seeking more?

I don't think anyone expects a 30yo dc to behave badly without consequences being applied.

@BurntToastAgain

I agree that insisting that ‘spouses are replaceable’ is not the sign of a nice healthy, non-narcissistic attitude.

But they are. Anyone in a blended family is there because at some point a spouse was replaced.

The narcissist angle is when you place yourself above the needs of your children. Your need to save a marriage where you get sex and your dinner made for you because you place YOUR need for these things above all else.

I simply could not love someone who hated my child. It would feel like a betrayal and I would view the hatred of my child as a hatred of a part of me. Because my children are a indelible part of me.

If a choice is to be made. I choose my children. No argument. Whatever they've done, no matter how rude they may be to other people connected with my life. I would not choose another person above them. Someone asking me to do this would be gone, they are replaceable, my children are not.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou There's just so much that is not healthy about that comment, but I'm aware that it is in keeping with your general world view.

The narcissist angle does not add up at all and tbh is FAR more applicable the kind of mentality you are expressing, than the other side. Your views about marriage being about sex and dinners are very strange and dismissive, no wonder you make such a point of how replaceable spouses are if that's how you think. There's nothing narcissistic about having to step away from a child who has consistently abused you, and its rarely done for "sex and dinners", that's an incredibly simplistic and one sided assumption.

If you would hate someone for disliking your child, when your child had been abusive to them, then that says more about you, than them. It's not a betrayal, you should not expect anyone to like them in that scenario, and if you do, again, the issue is with you. You don't sound like you really have the empathy necessary to even enter this situation. The term "narcassistic" is being very ironically applied.

I simply could not love someone who hated my child. It would feel like a betrayal and I would view the hatred of my child as a hatred of a part of me. Because my children are a indelible part of me.

Inability to see them as separate people but rather extensions of you is much more indicative of narcissism than anything anyone else has suggested.

Do you realise this?

Inability to see them as separate people but rather extensions of you is much more indicative of narcissism than anything anyone else has suggested.

Precisely.

Yes @aSofaNearYou, it’s incredible that someone reduces a marriage to entirely transactional things like that.

Even the sex thing shouldn’t be transactional in the way the poster implies. Sex is something you do together to build a connection in a healthy relationship. It’s not some debased dreadful thing.

No mention of love and support or caring about that specific person. Spouses are interchangeable because it’s just about what you can get. And the failure of one relationship should just make it easier to move on and find someone else to cook you dinner and service your sexual wants when you fancy it. 🙄

@BurntToastAgain

Yes *@aSofaNearYou*, it’s incredible that someone reduces a marriage to entirely transactional things like that.

Even the sex thing shouldn’t be transactional in the way the poster implies. Sex is something you do together to build a connection in a healthy relationship. It’s not some debased dreadful thing.

No mention of love and support or caring about that specific person. Spouses are interchangeable because it’s just about what you can get. And the failure of one relationship should just make it easier to move on and find someone else to cook you dinner and service your sexual wants when you fancy it. 🙄

It's what I have seen in narcissistic relationships, yes.

Also seen when older wives are replaced with younger models when they hit their expiry date (peri-menopause).

Without stopping to personal attacks on posters and diagnosis of mental disorders here, it's behaviour that I have witnessed exclusively in men - but I am not saying this behaviour can't be seen in women too, I just have no personal experience of it.

To clarify, I am talking about those who will tolerate poor treatment of their own children because it's the easier route.

Regardless of your personal attacks, I stand by my statement. My children come first. Not the person currently in my bed.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou but why are you talking exclusively about narcasstic relationships where the children are the ones being treated poorly, rather than normal relationships faced with hostile and abusive adult children, which is the actual subject of the thread?

[quote aSofaNearYou]@SleepOhHowIMissYou but why are you talking exclusively about narcasstic relationships where the children are the ones being treated poorly, rather than normal relationships faced with hostile and abusive adult children, which is the actual subject of the thread?[/quote]
Because if the OP's husband did yield and say, "okay, you win, I am disowning my daughter because she doesn't like you and you don't like her, I choose you" then ultimately she would be in a relationship with a man who puts his own needs above his own child.

As it is, the daughter is banned from the house. My reading of this is that that is not enough. The OP thinks that the daughter should be set adrift and no relationship should exist between father and child because she says so. So yes, OP you ARE being unreasonable if this is the case.

Because if the OP's husband did yield and say, "okay, you win, I am disowning my daughter because she doesn't like you and you don't like her, I choose you" then ultimately she would be in a relationship with a man who puts his own needs above his own child.

If that's all there is to it, yes, but people don't only do this because they don't like each other, there's generally more to it than that.

"If that's all there is to it, yes, but people don't only do this because they don't like each other, there's generally more to it than that."

We may never know. 150 posts in and op still won't say what she did. It does make me wonder whether, written down, it simply isn't really that bad.

Dp does put me first and vice versa to a point, kids are adults after all but we both help them out when we can, and each other's kids too i should add. Back in 2020 I dashed across the country picking up and dropping off including dsd so everyone got home for lockdown - but he'll tell dsd we are doing x or y and she's not invited if appropriate

What the OP has said is:

“I’ve never asked him to [stop seeing her]. However she is creating a situation where she’s demanding his loyalty lies with her when she’s the one being out of order. I don’t think she will be happy unless he leaves me.”

“my adult (30s) step daughter thinks her father should prioritise her despite her being absolutely awful to me. He is really not happy with her behaviour and she’s furious with him for “taking my side”

So she’s not the one making ‘her or me’ demands. The 30 year old daughter wants rid of her stepmother. She doesn’t like her father challenging her on her behaviour or their being consequences so she’s trying to pull rank.

Yes the OP hadn’t told us exactly what had led to her feeling that she’s completely done with the stepdaughter. But she’s actually asking whether her spouse should give in to his daughter’s demands or stand by his wife in the face of an adult child who is throwing her toys out of the pram.