To advise friend to ditch baby bottles, pushchair and nappies?

[feelinghappy]

My friend's children who are 4 and 6 drink squash from baby bottles (during the day at home - not at school - and take bottles of squash to bed with them), wear nappies in the car (not at night) and use a Phil and Ted pushchair if we go anywhere. My son was in pullups at night until 8 so I know the battle of accidents when they sleep - it's just seeing them get ready for driving home by lying on the floor to have nappies put on felt strange. Both children have speech problems (6 year old is seeing speech and language specialist) and neither have been to a dentist. I tried to encourage them to walk today but after a few steps they were both too tired and climbed back in the buggy. The nappies and buggy do not affect their health so much as the bottles - I wonder if she'll say to me in the future 'why didn't you say I shouldn't use bottles so long?' Or should I just mind my own business?

@BoredZelda no but obviously I know they will ask lots of questions to ascertain whether the environment could be causing a speech delay. But not everyone tells the truth to medics.

There may well be SEN or health condition. My DS used a buggy until he was 5 because of medical issues. I felt so embarrassed about it because it looked like a normal kid being lazy. I got comments and funny looks from strangers. I always felt I had to explain myself but friends were always very sweet and assured me they had never even thought about it, for which I was supremely grateful. Have you had a gentle chat with your friend to find out if there is anything going on with the kids?

My youngest child had a SALT referral from school, but no other developmental delay.
The 6 y o speech issues won't be helped by the bottle and he may have it in his mouth all day long at home.
I think you have a valid concern that your friend may want to talk with you about (or not).
I think the combination of bottle of juice and no dentist is neglectful.

As parent to a dc with developmental delay and knowing how difficult it can be to see Speech and Language, I am hazarding a guess that there is something else going on here.

I would find this worrying.
Taking a bottle of squash to bed? As someone who has had a lifetime of dental problems this pains me to read. It setting your child up for a life time of pain and expense (it costs an absolute fortune) and emotional distress. I don’t know anyone who easily navigates tooth issues.
I’d expect a parent to be really worried if this was the unfortunate situation they had found themselves in. But these kids haven’t ever been to a dentist? Not even tried? Why could that possibly be?

In terms of saying something.. it’s hard. As others have said, you won’t be thanked for it and most likely will lose the friendship. But it’s hard to sit back and just watch the situation unfold. The pram thing isn’t great. Kids need to use their muscles to develop them. But it’s unlikely to cause severe problems. The teeth thing will.
I don’t have advice either way but totally understand why you are worried

Neglected children often have speech delays.

My child has special needs including autism, speech delay, lack of awareness of danger and other developmental delays. She is 3 and still sleeps in a cot, has her night time milk in a 'bottle' and uses a pushchair when we go out. I would NOT take kindly to well meant 'friends' telling me what I should and shouldn't be doing with her.

I am lucky that has many professionals involved with her care including a paediatrician, portage worker, salt, sleep clinic and community SEN groups, all of whom agree she needs these 'baby' things for her stage of development. We are in the fortunate position of having professional involvement early in through a combination of me recognising her needs early and pushing for support, had this not been the case she would only just be beginning to register with most services through her nursery Senco. It can takes years for children's needs to be recognised.

Please leave any concerns and conversations to the appropriate professionals OP. There is nothing to be gained from you interfering.

As many posters have pointed out, SALT are on to it. However, they are probably an overstretched service like all the others and the therapist involved may not be adept at teasing out all the elements the OP refers to if they're reported only by the mother - she won't describe bottle use and other factors as being outside acceptable limits as she seems to think it's normal.

I think most people, if they were aware their child was doing something noticeably different to others they would mention it or discuss it with their friends. Either way, it can't hurt if the OP tactfully brings it up, surely friends can do that? It might be a relief for the other mother to finally discuss it.

@massiveblob

At our v large primary a few years back one mum used a pushchair for reception child. Never seen anyone else do it as catchment is less than 3/4 mile. She did it to stop him moaning on the ten minute walk home. Everyone used to comment behind her back that it was very odd. Might be wrong but it's true. The child is older now but never ever plays out and is the most unsporty child ever & has no coordination / balance. All prob linked. People do judge.

My friend was exactly like that with their child and he has never been sporty, has a lot of problems with balance and no coordination. He also has a disability called dyspraxia that I can assure you is not caused by buggy use.

@DeepaBeesKit

I was amazed at the number of parents at our school taking reception children home in a pushchair after a 3 hour morning at the start of term. Cooing "oh they're so tired and they're just babies really aren't they". We live in a village where all the children live within a ten minute walk of the school!! These kids are 4 and 5, they are not babies. It's not true that all kids will insist on walking at 4 & 6. Plenty can't be bothered to walk and will happily sit bone idle in a pram if given the choice.

I’m in sure no parents picked their children up in a car to save them walking did they?

Dyspraxia is common. Using a buggy to stop a child from moaning is still not okay.

@GrandmasCat
Dyspraxia doesn't require a 6 y o to use a buggy though. In fact practicing sport, walking lots etc is exactly what they would encourage for muscle development. Football really helped DS, although he has never been "good" at it.
Ds1s OT gave him exercises to do, and certainly didn't suggest he rested up.
DS1 has Dyspraxia and after lots of practice can swim, ride a bike etc. Sitting in a buggy as a 6 y o would be of no benefit.

[quote trumpisagit]@GrandmasCat
Dyspraxia doesn't require a 6 y o to use a buggy though. In fact practicing sport, walking lots etc is exactly what they would encourage for muscle development. Football really helped DS, although he has never been "good" at it.
Ds1s OT gave him exercises to do, and certainly didn't suggest he rested up.
DS1 has Dyspraxia and after lots of practice can swim, ride a bike etc. Sitting in a buggy as a 6 y o would be of no benefit. [/quote]
And yet DS OT referred him for a SN buggy and later a wheelchair and his dyspraxia was part of the reason for that.

Who would have thought even with the same diagnosis different people have different presentations and needs

I'm aware of dyspraxia. I have coached kids with it. All have been encouraged to develop muscle tone via sports & activity to help them. So whilst a buggy might be a solution for a very long walk, I'd not expect it for a ten min one on flat roads

Honestly, I cannot imagine 4-6 year olds being able to climb on a normal size buggy unless it is one made to carry disabled children, especially in school years when kids want not to be seen as “babies”.

Are you having a laugh? Loads of 5 year olds try and climb in their siblings prams because walking home is boring. Mine definitely would if I would let him. I dont. He can ride a bike or walk a couple of miles easily for leisure, he doesn't to sit in a pram. His mates are the same though, lots whinge if asked to walk despite being thoroughly capable.

I’m in sure no parents picked their children up in a car to save them walking did they?

You are right that a few also did this. It's my other bug bear! Driving a bloody huge car 600m only to sit outside school with the engine idle for 20 mins... in my kids class in several cases it's the nanny who does this so not a working parent dashing to get to/from work.

One of the issues with services being so overstretched is that you're left lumbering along trying to figure out what will actually work. So where do you push the child to do something and where do you pull back as it's not worth it. What will help them more long term?

@DeepaBeesKit

I was amazed at the number of parents at our school taking reception children home in a pushchair after a 3 hour morning at the start of term. Cooing "oh they're so tired and they're just babies really aren't they". We live in a village where all the children live within a ten minute walk of the school!! These kids are 4 and 5, they are not babies. It's not true that all kids will insist on walking at 4 & 6. Plenty can't be bothered to walk and will happily sit bone idle in a pram if given the choice.

Reception children are normally full-time its normally 15 hours for the free nurserys for 3-4 years. How many of the parents picked their kids up in a car?

It is normal at the start of reception to have a phased start. So mornings only would be normal at first.

@ilovesushi

There may well be SEN or health condition. My DS used a buggy until he was 5 because of medical issues. I felt so embarrassed about it because it looked like a normal kid being lazy. I got comments and funny looks from strangers. I always felt I had to explain myself but friends were always very sweet and assured me they had never even thought about it, for which I was supremely grateful. Have you had a gentle chat with your friend to find out if there is anything going on with the kids?

I used a mix of double/single buggy and a carrier for my 2 until the oldest was 5 the youngest 4. The oldest has special needs . But i had a 45 min walk home. I really could not be bothered with the 4 year old saying how it's not fair etc etc. I don't even care what other parents thought. Lots of judgement but yet it's OK to put children in cars. Car=wheels buggy =wheels

@RoyalFamilyFan

It is normal at the start of reception to have a phased start. So mornings only would be normal at first.

Oh I guess it depends on the school. It's full time right away where I am

My child has developmental delay and every bit of advice from nt parents is like a knife to my heart. Such advice would not be well received by me.
If baby has CP then swallowing, walking and toileting could all be a problem, as could everything else covered in your op.
Salt already involved so there's obviously already something been detected. Your virtue signalling mentoring offer would just be a way to make yourself feel superior.
If my friend did this I would dump them.

And my nt mum friend still breastfeeds so why should I be made to feel guilty about bottles(baby couldn't breastfeed due to needs)

@Goldilocks99 I think breastfeeding is quite different to juice in a bottle.
Are they breastfeeding a 6 y o?

@RoyalFamilyFan

I agree that not all young kids want to walk. For every toddler who wants to walk really slowly rather than sit in a buggy, there are kids who never want to walk and just sit in the buggy. Some parents do not encourage their child to move onto the next stage. A referral to SALT could be because of an underlying SN. It also could be because of deleted speech due to sucking from bottles far beyond a normal age. I think the suggestion to let the safeguarding lead at school know, is a good one.

I had one dd who never wanted to sit in the buggy from the time she could walk - which was by her first birthday.

The other (absolutely no SEN) was addicted to it. I once had to buy a buggy when we were on holiday, because it was such a pain trying to get her to walk for any length of time - she’d want to be carried. She was at least 3 1/4 by then.