To advise friend to ditch baby bottles, pushchair and nappies?

[feelinghappy]

My friend's children who are 4 and 6 drink squash from baby bottles (during the day at home - not at school - and take bottles of squash to bed with them), wear nappies in the car (not at night) and use a Phil and Ted pushchair if we go anywhere. My son was in pullups at night until 8 so I know the battle of accidents when they sleep - it's just seeing them get ready for driving home by lying on the floor to have nappies put on felt strange. Both children have speech problems (6 year old is seeing speech and language specialist) and neither have been to a dentist. I tried to encourage them to walk today but after a few steps they were both too tired and climbed back in the buggy. The nappies and buggy do not affect their health so much as the bottles - I wonder if she'll say to me in the future 'why didn't you say I shouldn't use bottles so long?' Or should I just mind my own business?

It's not true that all kids will insist on walking at 4 & 6. Plenty can't be bothered to walk and will happily sit bone idle in a pram if given the choice.

Are they active at home? Some children will run around for hours at home, barefoot or in socks, but dislike walking outdoors in shoes. In some cases it's because the shoes are uncomfortable or not an ideal fit; in other cases it may be that the children are just not used to spending much time outdoors, especially if they spent a lot of time at home during lockdown.

If they aren't active anywhere at all, then it's more worrying.

Treating children in a developmentally inappropriate way is a form of abuse.

Of course if the dc do have sn then despite their chronological ages they may be being treated in a way that is perfectly appropriate for their development.

But just going from their age, they aren’t.

Personally I may contact their school and ask to talk to safeguarding lead. They may not be aware of pushchair, bottles etc if it all happens at home not school. It could be useful information for them and they will be able to decide what (if any) further support is required for the family.

[quote toomuchlaundry]@londonrach do you clean her teeth afterwards. The problem with bottles I think is that the liquid pools round the teeth and can damage them.[/quote]
And does it not ‘pool’ if they use a cup? A lot of children have a habit of swilling whatever it is rounds their mouths anyway.

I’m old enough to remember when dummies were very much frowned upon in many circles - regarded as very much a ‘common’ or lower class thing. IMO the same probably applied/still applies to bottles for toddlers or older children.
When I had my two (long ago now) the advice was to stop bottles by 9 months and wean on to a cup. I dare say there was a ‘snob’ element to that, too.

As per my pp, a dd (now,long grown up) was still having drinks in a bottle - often (shock horror!) Ribena, at 3, and her teeth have always been perfect.

My son was in a buggy until fairly late because he is hyper mobile and easily tired. They didn’t diagnose it for ages though. All I knew was he couldn’t do it.
That age is peak “somethings different but we don’t have diagnosis age”. I’d assume it’s SEN or disability and wouldn’t say anything.

I agree that not all young kids want to walk. For every toddler who wants to walk really slowly rather than sit in a buggy, there are kids who never want to walk and just sit in the buggy. Some parents do not encourage their child to move onto the next stage.
A referral to SALT could be because of an underlying SN. It also could be because of deleted speech due to sucking from bottles far beyond a normal age.
I think the suggestion to let the safeguarding lead at school know, is a good one.

My five year old would happily go in a buggy if we let him so not sure about all the comments about normal four year olds not wanting that!

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER yes there can be a snob element. But dentists say clearly that bottles and dummies beyond a certain age, especially bottles at night or with juice in, increases the risk of dental decay. This does not mean every child will get it. Just as every child raised by parents smoking heavily on the house do not develop asthma. But it increases the risks and should be avoided.

I think you should stay out of it and mind your own business. It's easy for someone to judge from the outside.

@panicpidgeon

My five year old would happily go in a buggy if we let him so not sure about all the comments about normal four year olds not wanting that!

I totally agree.

Honestly, I cannot imagine 4-6 year olds being able to climb on a normal size buggy unless it is one made to carry disabled children, especially in school years when kids want not to be seen as “babies”.

From what you say, it looks like these kids are disabled but your friends has not disclosed the full extent of their disability to you.
Besides, you wouldn’t be breaking any news to her, I’m sure the school is already on the case.

Next time you are with her maybe just ask her , just casually why the need for the nappies and buggy. There may be Sen issues or she's just not letting them grow up.

I work in an ARB with teenagers with SEND and there’s a few students that don’t need to be there but their parents are convinced that they need to be.

If they have a place then they have met the qualifying criteria for it and so do need to be there, LA won't fund specialist places for children who don't need specialist placement (and usually won't fund them for children who do either). I hope none of your pupils know how dismissive you are of their difficulties.

It’a completely baffling that after everyone saying that people need to speak out, if they see something say something, that OP is being told to mind her own business.

OP surely you can ask about the bottles and buggy in a curious way that doesn’t feel like criticism, just to get some more understanding about whether there are genuine reasons or whether she needs more support?

I wonder if she'll say to me in the future 'why didn't you say I shouldn't use bottles so long?'

Of course you don’t actually wonder this.

Butt out.

It was only when the school got hold of their medical records they found that this wasn’t true

And unless they had parental permission, school csnt access medical records.

I think the bottles and lack of dental appointments suggest an overall lack of insight into the needs of her children. Their teeth must be rotten. Speech delay could be due to lack of communication with the children particularly where they are being overly pacified with bottles; another telltale sign of not understanding the needs of her children. Infantalising the children could also be about her not understanding the developmental milestones that are so key. She may have a desire to keep them as babies or of finding ways to avoid meaningful participation in the children's activities as she finds it too exhausting. Perhaps, again, suggesting that she is putting the children's needs below her own. There is enough to suggest that the mother is neglectful.

@GrandmasCat some people still do use buggies for 4-5-year-olds. Plenty of modern buggies is generous with space.
Photos of 4-year-olds in normal buggies in the article.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2711192/The-four-year-olds-pushed-prams-defiant-mothers-ANYTHING-wrong-it.html

It’a completely baffling that after everyone saying that people need to speak out, if they see something say something, that OP is being told to mind her own business.

Because agencies are already involved - SALT are involved, school are aware of developmental delays as they made the referral to SALT, follow-ups will be fed through the MAEIH (multi-agency early intervention hub) to see if involvement from other departments is appropriate. There is nothing for the OP to do other than mind her business.

I would struggle to be complicit in this (you sound like you are quite close to the family).
Is the juice (squash?) sugar free?
Did your children not say anything with regards to 6 year old in a nappy drinking out of a bottle?
I think you could kindly ask if she's is concerned about kids teeth because you read..... etc.
The pushchair doesn't sound great but lots of people drive their children everywhere, which is much the same!

I work in an ARB with teenagers with SEND and there’s a few students that don’t need to be there but their parents are convinced that they need to be.

😆😆😆😆 Because there are just so many spaces available that the Local Authority are handing them out willy nilly to anyone who asks.

I’m sure the parents I know, who’s children have diagnosed conditions along with supporting letters from consultants and therapists, and have seen their children refused an appropriate educational space, will be delighted to know they can go and just insist on being placed.

@Hospedia

It’a completely baffling that after everyone saying that people need to speak out, if they see something say something, that OP is being told to mind her own business.

Because agencies are already involved - SALT are involved, school are aware of developmental delays as they made the referral to SALT, follow-ups will be fed through the MAEIH (multi-agency early intervention hub) to see if involvement from other departments is appropriate. There is nothing for the OP to do other than mind her business.

This with bells on

I’m sure the parents I know, who’s children have diagnosed conditions along with supporting letters from consultants and therapists, and have seen their children refused an appropriate educational space, will be delighted to know they can go and just insist on being placed.

I'm just going to drop both disabled DC off at our nearest one after the Christmas holidays, I'm convinced they need to be there afterall.

SALT are aware of the speech delays. But do not necessarily know the full picture.

Personally I may contact their school and ask to talk to safeguarding lead. They may not be aware of pushchair, bottles etc if it all happens at home not school. It could be useful information for them and they will be able to decide what (if any) further support is required for the family.

Typical MN ridiculousness.

SALT are aware of the speech delays. But do not necessarily know the full picture.

Have you ever had SALT involvement?