AIBU to be horrified? (content warning: sex crimes)

[Aromatica]

I've read about this case where John Ernest Goodier has been charged with bestiality, child pornography, drug possession and not sticking to his sex offenders conditions.

He recently goes by the name Claire. This paper refers to him as a man but many of the others refer to him as a woman.
www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/19682778.northwich-man-admits-sex-dog/

AIBU to be horrified that this might be reported and recorded as a woman's crime and may serve time in a woman's prison?

(Yes I did post this before but requested it was deleted, so I could post again with a poll. In the interim, the ability to add a poll has gone and I can't see any polls in AIBU. Peculiar 🤔)

As far as I know and judging by other cases, the crime will be recorded as having been committed by a woman, and the sentence could well be served in a women’s prison.

All of which I think is wrong.

I also have enough common sense to realise that ‘not all Transwomen are like this’, aka the vast majority are not. So I am not being transphobic in believing that adult human sex offenders with penises should not be put in cells with adult human females.

The law needs to be based in fact.

Just so you know OP, there was a long thread in Chat about this case that was deleted because posters weren't speaking about this person nicely enough.

If this thread is also taken down it is being discussed elsewhere on MN:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4433420-Well-thats-not-very-lady-like

That's an old article OP

As you can see, in October, Goodier was a bloke. By the time he was sentenced, he was identifying as a woman. IPSO (the organisation that monitors press standards) insist that papers use the pronouns a person wants, no matter how heinous the crime or indeed how opportune their sudden transition appears.

Just to be clear, that first screenshot is from the same paper, by the same reporter.

.

Yes, YABU "to be horrified that this might be reported and recorded as a woman's crime and may serve time in a woman's prison?"

What difference does it make whether it's a man or a woman that allows themselves "to be penetrated by a dog" - either way it's fucking disgusting and the offender should be locked up. I honestly don't understand the fuss over whether a crime is attributed to a male or a female - a rape victim is still a rape victim, a sexual assault victim is still a sexual assault victim, the gender of the attacker doesn't change that.

It also doesn't matter if this offender ends up in a female prison as far as I'm concerned - as long as they are taken out of society then all is good. Any prisoner (male or female, in any prison) who is a threat to staff or other inmates should be placed in isolation anyway.

@MorningStarling

Yes, YABU "to be horrified that this might be reported and recorded as a woman's crime and may serve time in a woman's prison?"

What difference does it make whether it's a man or a woman that allows themselves "to be penetrated by a dog" - either way it's fucking disgusting and the offender should be locked up. I honestly don't understand the fuss over whether a crime is attributed to a male or a female - a rape victim is still a rape victim, a sexual assault victim is still a sexual assault victim, the gender of the attacker doesn't change that.

It also doesn't matter if this offender ends up in a female prison as far as I'm concerned - as long as they are taken out of society then all is good. Any prisoner (male or female, in any prison) who is a threat to staff or other inmates should be placed in isolation anyway.

This is incredibly naive

I'm hoping he will be sentenced as male.

A few papers referring to him as male, a few as female, leads me to think no GRC . I don't think that's enough to be sure John (as reported) or Claire (also as reported) Goodier is going to the male estate.

It's making me so angry for any woman that might end up locked up with this paedophile and repeat sex offender.

@MorningStarling

Yes, YABU "to be horrified that this might be reported and recorded as a woman's crime and may serve time in a woman's prison?"

What difference does it make whether it's a man or a woman that allows themselves "to be penetrated by a dog" - either way it's fucking disgusting and the offender should be locked up. I honestly don't understand the fuss over whether a crime is attributed to a male or a female - a rape victim is still a rape victim, a sexual assault victim is still a sexual assault victim, the gender of the attacker doesn't change that.

It also doesn't matter if this offender ends up in a female prison as far as I'm concerned - as long as they are taken out of society then all is good. Any prisoner (male or female, in any prison) who is a threat to staff or other inmates should be placed in isolation anyway.

So you don't care about accurate statistics and therefore the basis on which policies are created? You sound very naive.

So you'd be happy to share a cell with someone with a functioning penis then right? I fucking wouldn't! I know men and I know male sexuality and, no fucking way. Same way I wouldn't want my daughter's in a confined space like a changing room with a man, unless they wanted to be and had consented. Is anyone going to ask the women in the prison? I don't effing think so.

Especially one with clear mental health and boundary issues with proven criminal tendencies!

MorningStarling, these types of offences being committed by women is vanishingly rare. The offences are appalling. This male person should be in a male prison, not skewing crime statistics.

YANBU, of course.

To try to avert deletion, and also unwarranted reporting of posts on this thread, I'm going to post a link to talk guidelines which are worth reading if you're not already familiar, and highlight one section..

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/netiquette

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy

What about, for example, Karen White – is it ok to say he is a man and call him 'he'?
We think we've allowed for flexibility and context here; we’re unlikely to delete where an individual is primarily known for extreme or criminal actions undertaken before they transitioned.

@MorningStarling

Yes, YABU "to be horrified that this might be reported and recorded as a woman's crime and may serve time in a woman's prison?"

What difference does it make whether it's a man or a woman that allows themselves "to be penetrated by a dog" - either way it's fucking disgusting and the offender should be locked up. I honestly don't understand the fuss over whether a crime is attributed to a male or a female - a rape victim is still a rape victim, a sexual assault victim is still a sexual assault victim, the gender of the attacker doesn't change that.

It also doesn't matter if this offender ends up in a female prison as far as I'm concerned - as long as they are taken out of society then all is good. Any prisoner (male or female, in any prison) who is a threat to staff or other inmates should be placed in isolation anyway.

It DOES matter if he ends up in a woman's prison. How vile to suggest it doesn't. Why would you want a dangerous paedophile locked up with women?

@MorningStarling

Yes, YABU "to be horrified that this might be reported and recorded as a woman's crime and may serve time in a woman's prison?"

What difference does it make whether it's a man or a woman that allows themselves "to be penetrated by a dog" - either way it's fucking disgusting and the offender should be locked up. I honestly don't understand the fuss over whether a crime is attributed to a male or a female - a rape victim is still a rape victim, a sexual assault victim is still a sexual assault victim, the gender of the attacker doesn't change that.

It also doesn't matter if this offender ends up in a female prison as far as I'm concerned - as long as they are taken out of society then all is good. Any prisoner (male or female, in any prison) who is a threat to staff or other inmates should be placed in isolation anyway.

You're incredibly naïve

Thanks for the warning. Not nicely enough?
About a John Claire Goodier, the 60 year old animal rapist and paedophile..... On a parenting forum? Oh my days.
AIBU is full of robust conversation and filthy language, surely we can speak freely (within the law) here.

I think this situation is difficult, I'm absolutely fine with people being trans and using the spaces that reflect that provided they're being used correctly. However multiple crimes were committed here while they were identifying as a man, I think if it comes out they'd already approached their GP/therapist about identifying as female prior to this there should maybe be slightly different considerations (although I'm still torn). It does seem as though some people try to identify differently in order to receive a lesser sentence (if that's even true) or to be in a less violent/'easier' area in prison and it seems like this could potentially be the case here.

Thankfully these types of cases are rare although we do tend to hear lots about them when they occur. A trans person is no more likely to commit a crime than any other person however some people will claim the 'protection' of being trans (normally a trans woman able to access a women's prison) in criminal cases.

It's awful not only for the women prisoners but also because statistics drive policy

It's because this person has declared a feminine identity for themself OP. Once they've got one of those then the guidelines ErrolTheDragon have mentioned above apply (or maybe not, it isn't consistent) and threads can disappear, or be transplanted elsewhere on MN.

@Aromatica

Thanks for the warning. Not nicely enough? About a John Claire Goodier, the 60 year old animal rapist and paedophile..... On a parenting forum? Oh my days. AIBU is full of robust conversation and filthy language, surely we can speak freely (within the law) here.

Yes... I think the bit of the guidelines I quoted mean we shouldn't have to worry about being honest about this man.

YANBU.

But we're not allowed to comment much on certain topics, as noted above.

Transwomen commit crimes at the same rate as men. Recording transwomen's crimes as women's crimes distorts the data. For example, I can't remember the exact statistics but there was some report about sex crimes by women increasing by 400%.

Policies, regulations and laws are based on this data. Why would anyone be OK with the data being deliberately made less accurate?

And if you don't care about men in women's prisons (especially sex offenders) then you really must have no compassion for vulnerable women.

YANBU.

World has gone mad.

"individual is primarily known for extreme or criminal actions"

Well this charmer is only known for criminal actions.

Interesting to note another post-arrest transition. Convenient.

And if you don't care about men in women's prisons (especially sex offenders) then you really must have no compassion for vulnerable women.

Exactly this. It astounds me how many people say they don't care about how they identify without seeing that this is the end result.