Dh shouts at 3 year old if she won’t sleep

[Pipesofpeas]

Our Dd is 3, she’s very lively and has always struggled on and off to fall asleep at night. She’s been going through a few weeks of not being able to fall asleep easily and then waking up early, so is overtired.
We’ve been putting her to bed earlier and doing the routine we’ve always done-teeth, story, lights out, cuddling up to her etc.
We alternate bedtimes and Dh just isn’t able to cope with it, she definitely can be hard work but is only 3. I had to come up and take over tonight as he was shouting at her to go to sleep, getting angry and storming around. She was being difficult, running around, not getting into bed etc. I totally get how hard it is, parenting is hard, but shouting and getting angry just makes it so much worse. I’ve just been lay here cuddling to to her whilst she cried and said she can’t sleep and is trying. Just feel so sad for her and wish he’d just step up and be a better parent. He always says he’s tired from work, yes I get it, I’m tired too, we’re all tired ffs

@Redburnett

Shouting at a 3 year old to go to sleep is abusive. Tell your Dp that. If he does not respond appropriately you should LTB.

What a useless comment.

Op I have a 4 year old and I lay with her every night to get her to sleep. I used to read comments like 'you put them in their room and tell them to stay in bed until they go to sleep, they have to go to sleep alone' and feel absolutely horrible but my dd will not sleep if I leave her in her room alone. She will stay up til 10-11pm which I can't let her do. She will lay in her bed because I've told her to but she will sing, talk, play with her soft toys, play with the lights, kick about, fidget etc. she needs to be reminded to stop, lay still and go to sleep. It only takes about 10-20 mins now.

Dh has adhd and his sleep is utterly shit, and yet he gets annoyed at her not laying down and going off. It's hard when you've been up and at it all day and then you just want some bloody quiet and I have been known to say 'just go to sodding sleep!' But I know that would never work with dh. In the end the best thing for me to do was just to lay there with my eyes closed - I also started to put on her 'bedtime music' which is Ludovico Einaudi. She asks for it now which is lovely.

You've got to love abit of weaponised incompetence.

He shouts/behaves aggressively to DD at bedtime;you'll take over.

He continues to shout/behave aggressively to DD at bedtime;he won't be roped into parenting his own DD at nighttime anymore.

He gets to do as he pleases whilst you do the grunt work;what a win for him!

He shouldn't have shouted but it's understandable and not the end of the world. I think you need to accept that if you want your husband to do something that he needs to have some input in to how it's done, which is not to say shouting at her obviously, but I think you should speak openly together about how you plan to approach your daughter's bed time behaviour. You don't sound very open about this, tbh.

Sorry op but you are being far too soft . Bed time is bed time . Time to face facts your softly softly approach no longer works . It might be hard for a few days but as others have said , bed she gets up back to bed . No extra stories , cuddling or attention surely as an early years practitioner you can see you are feeding her bad behaviour by rewarding her with your attention.

OK. So.the situation is that she won't go to sleep without someone lying by her.

No wonder that everyone is frustrated and annoyed.

She needs to go to sleep, or be able to.be left in her room to go to sleep.

You both need to start sleep training and agree a plan. Probably rapid return to bed with no fuss.

Once she goes to.bed without someone lying her then he won't be in the situation that he is having to lye next to a wriggling child

My DC2 was a nightmare at bedtime for years so I can totally sympathise with him. I kept my cool for a long time but there were times when I was at the end of my tether and I did shout. I felt terrible afterwards but she was so difficult and it felt impossible at times. She used to get out of bed and I’d be faced with endless demands every single night. A drink, the toilet, her Teddy wasn’t in the right place, one more book, sing me a song, tuck me into bed like a sausage roll, put the lamp on, turn the lamp off. Honestly, it was totally relentless until she was at least six. I don’t blame him for feeling frustrated, it’s really difficult.

I know you want to share bedtime equally but maybe if you hear he’s struggling, it’s just time to step in and help.

Could you put her bedtime back to 8? Do you drive? Maybe you could drive her somewhere about half one and have her back awake by three if she can drop off?

What time does your dh get back from work? Could you go out together for a walk or to a cafe/ child friendly pub to have tea and change the routine a little? My eldest also takes melatonin and were so lucky, it's been a life changer for us (asd).

Being shouted at is frightening and stressful. It feels like you're in danger. So the heart starts pumping faster, you're ore awake, alert and energetic. It's a suvival mechanism. And the last thing that can happen then is sleep.

Some posters are suggesting adding more ‘crutches’ to the sleep routine, such as driving her around until she’s asleep. I can’t help but feel this is poor advice and will actually make things a lot harder in the long run, no?

I remember a parenting thing (Supernanny?) where the parents were advised to do the full winding down, relaxing bedtime routine. Then if the child got up etc they were advised to just silently put her back to bed and not engage, no chatting, arguing, pleading with her etc, just putting her back, light out, door shut. It seemed to work for them.

@CriminalOrator

Some posters are suggesting adding more ‘crutches’ to the sleep routine, such as driving her around until she’s asleep. I can’t help but feel this is poor advice and will actually make things a lot harder in the long run, no?

Completely agree- why would you waste time weaning from one crutch to another. Just train the poor child to sleep on her own.

I remember a parenting thing (Supernanny?) where the parents were advised to do the full winding down, relaxing bedtime routine. Then if the child got up etc they were advised to just silently put her back to bed and not engage, no chatting, arguing, pleading with her etc, just putting her back, light out, door shut. It seemed to work for them.

^^ what we did and have a fantastic sleeper. He sometimes potters around in his room or chats to himself but he'd never expect either of us to get into bed with him because we've never entertained it

He’s tired and he shouts at her (really bad behaviour that as an adult he should control) because she’s tired and not quite capable of always behaving impeccably and he doesn’t see the hypocrisy?!

@DropYourSword I know 🤷🏻‍♀️

I spoke to Dd this morning again about how she was really tired but wouldn’t sleep, she said she was crying because she wanted to go downstairs as her body had too much energy and she couldn’t sleep. We’ll see how tonight goes, it has to be dh, I need a break, especially with all the Christmas bits going on.
She does often fall asleep in the car so I could perhaps take her out after lunch, the only trouble we started to have was if she napped again, she’d be up until 11 ish and not sleeping, which was even more hellish.
When she first started dropping her nap and going to bed at 7, she was tired and fell asleep at first, the last couple of months she’s been unable to sleep, not sure why.

Just coming back to this one.

OP - if you are happy with how she goes down for you, why is it your responsibility to sort how DH puts her to bed on his nights? Surely he needs to find a way to get her to sleep that works for both of them?

Also the irony of PP being soft on DH for losing his temper as that’s ‘understandable’ but DD 3 is meant to regulate her own emotions Indepedant of any parental help?! Honestly I can’t get over some of the backwards ‘super nanny’ views on this thread!

One thing we expect children to do that we don't have to do ourselves if we're a couple is to go to bed and lie there alone in the dark. No-one to talk to, to cuddle, the thing in the cupboard, the sound under the bed - all has to be coped with alone. When you're three.

It's a bit rich of you to say that he needs to do it because you need a break, when you're the one who drags out bedtime and insists on getting in her bed and staying for hours on end.

It is your job to teach her. Part of that is teaching her that sleep is not scary and not a big event or playtime or chat time. You've been given plenty of advice from people who have done this several times before, but you know better. So fine. But its shitty to demand your husband does this ridiculous routine when it does not work just because it's how you want it done.

Let him read the thread. Let him see the advice. Let him make a choice about bed time routine that he feels is most suitable. Then leave him to it. But dont force your pandering method onto him.

It's not going to kill your kid, being shouted at.

That said, I'd be very upset if my DH were anything but gentle with a three year old DD, especially at bedtime.

Not good to shout (unless child is about to walk into traffic or grab a knife,that sort of thing) The child needs to know that nighttime is for sleep so when she gets up very early or right after being out back to bed she's placed back in bed every time-"Back to sleep now" every time,rinse and repeat. If there's no special needs and no emotional trauma in their lives (such as a move,divorce,new sibling) Some parents make the error of catering to children and the children find being awake fun but if you make disrupted sleep boring they may relax and go back to their normal sleep routine

I'm in a similar position, OP. My 4.5 year old still needs someone lying with him for him to drop off (and DH is also working on his patience!). But I absolutely know that if someone wasn't with him, instead of bedtime taking 20 minutes of quiet time, it would be a much longer battle with a lot more noise and tears. I just don't think it's worth it right now.

Things have improved in the last couple of months as my husband is now able to get him off to sleep, so that gives me more space to get my second (18 months) off to sleep.

It's frustrating, yes. But equally I don't think it will last forever. I question myself quite often but I just can't agree with some of the "alternatives" offered here.

I don't believe you're being "soft" as some have suggested. Or, you are, but I don't think that's a bad thing! Is the alternative being "hard"? Sarah Ockwell Smith and other similar proponents of gentle parenting say that usually the problem is that your expectations don't match with your child's capabilities and often children just aren't developmentally able to comply. The answer is therefore to adjust your expectations, not to try to bend your child to fit your needs.

OP, does your husband agree that he should work on his patience? It's hard, everyone agrees it's hard, but I think it really makes a difference if you work on your own reactions first. Would he read any parenting books? I liked Sarah Ockwell Smith's books and also How To Talk So Little Kids Will Listen.

Good luck

Op are you serious,you will take her out in the car to see if she will nap this afternoon ! You are replacing one bad routine for another. You don't seem to want to take onboard your bedtime routine does not work it's time to change . It won't happen overnight but it will . My first was horrendous at bed time , took about a week of bed ,put back to bed over and over first night took 4 hours . But so worth it once she twigged bedtime was bedtime not one last story ,one more cuddle one more glass of milk.

Shouting and “storming around” is an awful way for a grown man to behave towards a 3 year old.

I can’t believe it is being minimised at normal.

Does he behave like this towards her if she annoys him during the day?

Stick a tv or phone in her room and put on a kids meditation sleep story from YouTube or Spotify. Some last for an hour.

And maybe she is not ready to fall asleep at 7pm anymore? Every child is different just as adults are.