Dh shouts at 3 year old if she won’t sleep

[Pipesofpeas]

Our Dd is 3, she’s very lively and has always struggled on and off to fall asleep at night. She’s been going through a few weeks of not being able to fall asleep easily and then waking up early, so is overtired.
We’ve been putting her to bed earlier and doing the routine we’ve always done-teeth, story, lights out, cuddling up to her etc.
We alternate bedtimes and Dh just isn’t able to cope with it, she definitely can be hard work but is only 3. I had to come up and take over tonight as he was shouting at her to go to sleep, getting angry and storming around. She was being difficult, running around, not getting into bed etc. I totally get how hard it is, parenting is hard, but shouting and getting angry just makes it so much worse. I’ve just been lay here cuddling to to her whilst she cried and said she can’t sleep and is trying. Just feel so sad for her and wish he’d just step up and be a better parent. He always says he’s tired from work, yes I get it, I’m tired too, we’re all tired ffs

@Itsalmostanaccessory

“She should be having praise and love and attention heaped on her. But then bedtime routine and night night and self settling.”

But if she needs love and attention at night time why wouldn’t you give it? How is a three year old meant to understand that there is a time limit on attention?

Agree with trying stories etc but mum can stay with her at least to start to see if they help DD. No need to jump in at the deep end.

@Boshmama We co sleep with her and exhausting as that can be and how it would be easier for me to shut the door and leave her in a dark room and go and watch tv, she cries for us etc.
That’s why I don’t agree with your technique @Itsalmostanaccessory I’m listening to lots of advice and taking it onboard but don’t parent as you do, just because you do it doesn’t mean I’m wrong.

My daughter was like that, what worked for us was after stories putting on a children’s guided bedtime meditation by christiane kerr specifically for children. It’s so relaxing and is also a little story she can listen to.
I would sit and hold her hand for a little while but no cuddles in bed.
This worked really well - my daughter still listens to it now at age 7, the music is very soothing.

Your husband shouldn’t be shouting at her. However, at 3, she should be in a good routine and going to sleep. Lying with her is just going to make it worse as time goes on.

You need a solid routine.

My oldest was a bloody nightmare for going to bed at her age. This is what I did.

Bath, pyjamas, two stories. Tuck in, say goodnight. Night light on. Then I would say, ‘it’s bedtime now. You need to stay in your bed. I am just going to go and do x job and will be back in one minute to check on you.’

Leave. Stay very close by. Come back in one minute. Then say, ‘I’m going to do and do x job. I’ll be back in a few minutes.’ Repeat until you’re leaving her for longer until she falls asleep. If she gets out of bed, just keep firmly repeating that it’s bedtime. Do not let her out of her room unless she needs the loo or whatever.

That’s one strategy. Other one is she’s allowed to look at books/play quietly but you will not keep sitting with her.

This May sound harsh, but no sleep nearly broke me and a routine was the only way we all coped.

@Boshmama I agree, I really don’t think that would help her at all

But the way you're doing it isn't working for you so something needs to change

@Lollirocks I will try that, thank you, we used Moshi for naps, back when she still napped and it helped a little to relax her 💜

@LowlandLucky only seems on mumsnet that no one ever shouts or thinks its ok to be firm when its bedtime

Does your disgusted watch much television? No judgement, because my children do, but I’ve read some interesting stuff lately about how some children can be very strongly affected by TV. I follow this woman on Instagram, jerricasannes, who has some info about a TV detox to identify how much TV your child can manage, and she also suggests shows that avoid overstimulating young children. Might be worth some research?

We got a Yoto for our 6yo twins, and the audiobooks have really helped one who struggles to switch off at night. Our 3yo is actually getting one for Christmas for similar reasons.

Audiobooks also a good idea for her to fall asleep to.

@rainbowandglitter I know, open to other ideas and have taken lots on, leaving her at this point I don’t think will help. Every child’s different and I can see that working for some others though

Hi @Pipesofpeas, I have found with my 3.5 year old he has over the last couple of months become very aware of the dark now that it’s winter and his bedroom shapes (shadows from teddy’s/lampshades etc).
He’s got a night light and rotating star projector and I like you will lie with him after his books to settle him, it would take a little while when I first started it as he wouldn’t want me to leave and would get upset, now it’s 5 mins and he says goodnight. I think their imaginations are just starting at this age and hopefully she’ll settle with time.

@Boshmama

There are plenty of situations where you need to teach your kids that it is quiet time now. No singing or chatting or running around.

It is also, as I've said, really important for children to learn to self settle, to calm down, to fall asleep to just be in their own space with music or audiobooks or nothing if they prefer.

Children learn that bedtime is a time for quiet, chilled out, alone time because you spend a few nights doing the difficult part of story, goodnight and leave.

@Pipesofpeas
Your way isnt working. Your husband is at the end of his tether. Your child sees bedtime as an event. As a time to get songs and stories and chat. She is exhausted. She gets so tired that she cries. But to her, right now, bedtime is a chance to play with you. So she will fight sleep in order to get those songs and stories and attention. What you're doing isnt teaching her a thing and it isnt good for her.

But, you dont want to hear any advice from anyone who does things differently and has done it all before (and has a doctorate in child psycholog) so you do you. But maybe let your husband stop soon bed time and do the pre-bedtime story and play. You can then lie in her bed for 2 hours while she gets so tired she cries but wont sleep because mum is there to talk to.

Ugh, I meant daughter, obviously. Sorry!

DD has a busy mind. She’s 4.5 now but from the age of around 2.5 I have left her with 3 books to look at after I go downstairs. She now self regulates and barely looks at them when she’s really tired but sometimes she’ll look at all three and chat away about them (or now that she can read, she reads them) for up to an hour.

Could be worth a try but I’d explain to her a few days in a row (in the daytime when she’s calm) that the new routine will be that you will read 2 stories to her and then you have to go downstairs and get on with grown up jobs or whatever but she can look at books (or listen to audio books/music). Try not telling her to go to sleep as I think the pressure of trying to go to sleep can make them act up.

Re your DH shouting, I can see that if over the past few months a gentle approach has achieved nothing that a) he may think that shouting might achieve something b) he'll be at the end of his tether.

I shout at DD sometimes. Think it's normal to not always be able to be calm and measured in our responses.

[quote Pipesofpeas]@Boshmama We co sleep with her and exhausting as that can be and how it would be easier for me to shut the door and leave her in a dark room and go and watch tv, she cries for us etc.
That’s why I don’t agree with your technique @Itsalmostanaccessory I’m listening to lots of advice and taking it onboard but don’t parent as you do, just because you do it doesn’t mean I’m wrong.[/quote]
But @Pipesofpeas you are posting for advice on a forum because her sleep is causing a massive issue.

If you don't feel you're doing it wrong then why are you posting for advice?

If you feel that cosleeping and lying with her until she falls asleep is the right thing to do then marvellous, crack on. But it's clearly not working, your DD is unhappy, you're unhappy, your DH is unhappy. So something needs to change. So why not listen and try to make changes?

Hi op , do her bedtime routine, then leave the room , leave her to settle on her own. If needled go in pop her in bed saying it's bed time , repeat as much as needled. Had this with one of mine she soon learned bed time was bed time. Seemed to take forever at the time, but on reflection it was less than a week.

Also OP, we had endless issues with our eldest’s sleep and it massively impacted on our marriage and our general well being. I was ruthless about getting her into a good routine and sleeping properly because I personally couldn’t cope with having no evenings and broken sleep.

@Itsalmostanaccessory

“There are plenty of situations where you need to teach your kids that it is quiet time now. No singing or chatting or running around.

It is also, as I've said, really important for children to learn to self settle, to calm down, to fall asleep to just be in their own space with music or audiobooks or nothing if they prefer. “

Agree completely with the first bit here - of course it is.

The second bit, is your opinion which I disagree with. I think the only way for children to successfully learn to settle themselves to sleep is to have parental help to do it for as long as they need to, then they will be able to self regulate etc etc. We’ll have to agree to disagree here.

@Foldinthecheese Not masses, no, we’re in another country with warm weather so are generally outside for large parts of the day. She’s allowed some tv after breakfast and sometimes in the evening, I’m not sure if that’s too much, it’s well balanced with everything else.

@Itsalmostanaccessory Woah, is it really necessary to be so rude? I came here for advice, which I’m taking on board, I just don’t agree really with your way, and that’s ok, isn’t it?
Does it matter about qualifications? I’m
an Early years teacher with years of experience and a masters, but I’m willing to accept others do things differently.
Dd isn’t asking for songs and stories to stay up and play, she’s needing them to help her fall asleep, she’s needing me there and for that help as she genuinely really struggles to switch off.
I’ve tried leaving before, she cries for me and needs me to be there, at this age, I’ll do that for her.

To be honest in situations like this, I would try to defuse it by taking over for a little while but talking to him about how to deal with it better. It’s very hard being a parent and those first few years are horrendous. I know it won’t be fair for you but perhaps you could strike a deal with him for a few weeks. “Would it help if I do the bedtime for a few weeks and you do ……” perhaps you can get her in to a better routine and she will definitely be picking up on his anxiety. Perhaps he could go up, do the bath, read the story and give her a kiss and then you take over. Hopefully it will get sorted.

@Makeaplan2022 Yes, her imagination has really taken off the last few months, it’s Ben a huge change, it’s like she struggles to switch her brain off, she’s so much of everything, bright and quite intense 🙈the minute she wakes up, she’s talking and straight into wanting to start imaginative play. It’s like an overload in her mind, hence the trying to slow things down and just relax and not do much at home, when she becomes like this, it’s a rollercoaster isn’t it!

@Pipesofpeas would you consider trying my idea? It really worked for my DD.

@Itsalmostanaccessory, do you have a degree in being a sarcastic, patronising twunt?