Is it cultural appropriation to celebrate Christmas if you're not a Christian?

[Katbut]

OK slightly goady title as I don't think it is cultural appropriation at all but I'm so confused about current political correctness/wokeism about cultural appropriation. It doesn't make any sense to me.

From what I've read in the media recently, it's cultural appropriation to:

Have corn rows etc. if you're white.
Use chorizo in paella.
Let kids play cowboys and Indians.
Represent traditional cultures in theatre (eg removal of Arabian/Chinese dances in the Nutcracker ballet).
Look too tanned in case people think you're trying to look like a different race.

I'm sure there's loads more examples but it's late and my brain isn't working.

If all of these sorts of things are cultural appropriation, why is it OK for atheists to celebrate Christmas? I know the Christians adapted various pagan traditions into Christmas but the idea of "Christ"mas is purely Christian. How is this any different than other forms of cultural appropriation?

(For what it's worth, I personally think the whole cultural appropriation thing is massive overkill - it's often cultural appreciation rather than appropriation).

Just a random Friday night musing...

It is then demeaning those elements by using them in an ignorant, casual or trite way and without due deference

See, for me that's amply covered by racism. It doesn't need an additional wooly and poorly defined term.

Do you think Christians in the UK are a privileged group?

Yes. Christmas and Easter are bank holidays, so unless you work in retail or the emergency services, you don't need to ask your employer's permission to go to church. Anyone who's Muslim, Jewish, or any other religion has to take annual leave to take part in their own festivals.

Cultural appropriation goes further than merely picking up and choosing elements from a minority culture. It is then demeaning those elements by using them in an ignorant, casual or trite way and without due deference, when to the original culture they have considerable cultural, religious or other significance.

Yes. It's basically taking something from a minority culture, stripping it of its original meaning and cultural significance, and using it for fashion or amusement value. And all the while continuing to treat people from that minority culture with racism and discrimination, even though you think some of their clothing or rituals are fun. When you try to relabel it as cultural appreciation, you're denying the part that the dominant culture has in perpetuating racism.

Meh.

I do what I want, when I want as long as it isn't illegal. Other people's feelings are not my problem

So if people in Hong Kong, where the dominant majority is not White or Christian, enjoys Christmas or Easter as a non religious festival, with only certain elements being utilised out of context (such as presents or Christmas trees, rather than Church or family gatherings), I should get up in arms about cultural appropriation? Or just be happy that people are enjoying the festival as I did theirs?

It seems such a miserable way to live - constantly looking for problems.

It's inappropriate to put the focus on it being just a country holiday when yes it is a religious holiday. I have no issue with others embracing and celebrating our holiday with us, but when others will gladly sit there and proclaim a love for Christmas but then not acknowledge it is indeed a religious holiday or respect those who religion it is, is insulting. It's like having fireworks on diwali but not respecting the meaning behind it. Also, when at work in the past people with children argue ' well I should have the time off because I have children' , no. Unless it is your religious holiday you shouldn't be prioritised.

Yes, I mentioned the Republic of Ireland when I referred to the constituents of the British isles. I did not refer to the Republic of Ireland when I referred to the UK. I only referred to the four countries that had the same status, which were England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales. They are the only countries that are part of the United Kingdom. One could always find a reason to say that no two items are ever the same no matter how many characteristics they share, but that's just a semantic game.

It's inappropriate to put the focus on it being just a country holiday when yes it is a religious holiday

But it isn't religious for everyone. Given that there have been celebrations and feasting at this time of year since before Jesus time, it's much too simplistic to say it's all about Christianity. Christianity has moulded the midwinter celebrations into what we see today, in this country and others, but criticising others for celebrating midwinter because they aren't actively Christian is incredibly shorr sighted and insular.

blog.fuertehoteles.com/en/sin-categorizar/spanish-paella-recipes/

Written presumably by a Spaniard? Or to paraphrase if you don’t want to read it, there is not only one recipe for paella!

I've seen more people outraged about people outraged at cultural appropriation than I've seen people outraged at cultural appropriation. Including the paella thing, in which the OP seems to have interpreted a few people expressing mild amusement or making jokes on twitter as some sort of pc gone mad wokerazi thing.

I think if you are from a traditionally Christian country like the UK or Ireland, it's fine to celebrate Christmas whether you're a Christian or have no religion. Being brought up in that environment, having holidays built around Christmas and Easter as a child, having public holidays at these times in your working life, it's natural to see celebrating Christmas as normal even if you're not a devout Christian.

If you're not from a traditionally Christian culture, or especially if you are another religion, yes it's cultural appropriation and quite offensive to try to claim a piece of Christmas as your own because you have n entitlement to it.

The argument "Christmas is based on a pagan festival" is a red herring. Yes, the Romans had the Saturnalia festival at this time of year, so it's perfectly fine for any adherents to the old Roman religion still celebrating that at this time. But they'd be celebrating their own festival, not stealing one from another culture.

And that's what it is, stealing. If I dress up as a Sikh woman because I like their dress but have no understanding of what it means or how it developed, that's stealing from their culture.

The argument "Christmas is based on a pagan festival" is a red herring

I think that depends on how the argument is used.

If it's used to demonstrate that celebrations at that time of year predate Christianity, and therefore it's surely perfectly okay for people that aren't Christian to celebrate at this time of year, even though it is now largely tied in with Jesus, it's a valid point.

yes it's cultural appropriation and quite offensive to try to claim a piece of Christmas as your own because you have n entitlement to it.

Who needs 'entitlement' to a turkey dinner and a man in a red suit? They're harming no one.

If I dress up as a Sikh woman because I like their dress but have no understanding of what it means or how it developed, that's stealing from their culture

There's nothing wrong with this either in the right context so long as it's done out of respect and admiration.

The idea that Jesus was executed on the same day as his conception means he was thought to have died on March 25, which means his birth must be nine months later on … Dec 25. So the date Christianity settled on has something to do with the solstice, but no, it’s not a case of straight appropriation. These things are rarely that simple.
From historyforatheists.com/2020/12/pagan-christmas/

Is it Cultural appropriation for Jools Holland to do his shite show on NYE? Or should I actually blame the Scots?

If you're not from a traditionally Christian culture, or especially if you are another religion, yes it's cultural appropriation and quite offensive to try to claim a piece of Christmas as your own because you have n entitlement to it

So how does this work, in India? To be sure the gazetted holiday (for everyone and legal) is an imposition by the British Raj. However, many of the religions, apart from having a very welcome day off, have cherry-picked the aspects that work best for them.

How is this not cultural appropriation?

Full disclosure: Good luck to them. All fun. All good.

The idea of Christmas is purely pagan. Simple. Customs associated with it like exchanging of gifts and lighting candles is completely pagan. In fact archeological findings show that it was celebrated 300 years before Christ's birth. As it really is a pagan celebration , one isn't appropriating it if they are atheists,agnostic etc.
In any case some would be offended if people continually celebrated their birthday on the wrong date.
YABU
The paella thing tho is just exaggerated.
Food is food. All humans eat food

This discussion is mental. It's like listening to a bunch of sixth formers trying to be modern and offended. Your economy would be seriously fucked if the Qataris and Saudis stopped coming to London for Christmas every year. You are happy enough to take their money and investments even though they have Christmas trees and gifts galore.

@Draggondragon

This discussion is mental. It's like listening to a bunch of sixth formers trying to be modern and offended. Your economy would be seriously fucked if the Qataris and Saudis stopped coming to London for Christmas every year. You are happy enough to take their money and investments even though they have Christmas trees and gifts galore.

😂😂😂😂 true

[quote ChristmasFestival]The idea that Jesus was executed on the same day as his conception means he was thought to have died on March 25, which means his birth must be nine months later on … Dec 25. So the date Christianity settled on has something to do with the solstice, but no, it’s not a case of straight appropriation. These things are rarely that simple.
From historyforatheists.com/2020/12/pagan-christmas/[/quote]
According to the bible Jesus was born when their were lambs around. Is this December in the Middle East?

According to the bible Jesus was born when their were lambs around. Is this December in the Middle East?

I always thought Jesus was a Pisces due to the fish symbol being used