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Original poster

Is it cultural appropriation to celebrate Christmas if you're not a Christian?

323 replies

Katbut · 16/12/2021 23:53

OK slightly goady title as I don't think it is cultural appropriation at all but I'm so confused about current political correctness/wokeism about cultural appropriation. It doesn't make any sense to me.

From what I've read in the media recently, it's cultural appropriation to:

Have corn rows etc. if you're white.
Use chorizo in paella.
Let kids play cowboys and Indians.
Represent traditional cultures in theatre (eg removal of Arabian/Chinese dances in the Nutcracker ballet).
Look too tanned in case people think you're trying to look like a different race.

I'm sure there's loads more examples but it's late and my brain isn't working.

If all of these sorts of things are cultural appropriation, why is it OK for atheists to celebrate Christmas? I know the Christians adapted various pagan traditions into Christmas but the idea of "Christ"mas is purely Christian. How is this any different than other forms of cultural appropriation?

(For what it's worth, I personally think the whole cultural appropriation thing is massive overkill - it's often cultural appreciation rather than appropriation).

Just a random Friday night musing...

OP posts:
xmastreezz · 17/12/2021 08:51

I thought it's only cultural appropriation if the culture being appropriated is a minority culture.

Christianity isn't a culture and probably isn't a minority either.

silentpool · 17/12/2021 08:52

Cultural appropriation is pure ridiculousness, so why not, let's ban fun at Christmas time unless you are a card carrying Christian.

HeddaGarbled · 17/12/2021 08:52

Michael Jackson spent years whitening his skin ffs

Oh well, if Michael Jackson, on whom so many of us model our behaviour, ‘culturally appropriated’ a lighter skin tone, that’s any argument finished.

TheBestofTimesTheWorstofTimes · 17/12/2021 08:56

Great question OP!

YANBU

FluffyBooBoo · 17/12/2021 09:01

@TheBestofTimesTheWorstofTimes

Great question OP!

YANBU

Is it a great question? Really?

Hope it's it's cultural appropriation to celebrate something that has been done within your family for many, many years (so it's your tradition) just because you don't believe in the god that your parents or grandparents did?

FluffyBooBoo · 17/12/2021 09:01

How*

MrsSkylerWhite · 17/12/2021 09:04

No of course it isn’t. Unless you consider Christians adopting existing midwinter festivals thousands of years ago in populations they were seeking to convert as cultural appropriation?

Justcallmebebes · 17/12/2021 09:04

Use chorizo in paella.

Seriously? Is this a thing?

fournonblondes · 17/12/2021 09:05

I do mind if people from all backgrounds join to celebrate Christmas. What I dislike is people from other religions coming to Christian countries to try to ban our traditions. Christmas, Halloween, eating certain types or meats, having dogs as pets. I had a few bad experiences with this.

MrsSkylerWhite · 17/12/2021 09:05

Justcallmebebes

Use chorizo in paella.
Seriously? Is this a thing?“

We ate it in Spain in the 1970s .

Mouseonmychair · 17/12/2021 09:06

No it isn't and claims of cultural appropriation are normally just wokist claptrap anyway whatever the source.

fournonblondes · 17/12/2021 09:07

I do not mind I mean

Cupcakeschocolate · 17/12/2021 09:09

I don't understand why Christmas is in December as Jesus was born in the spring

CoverYourselfInChocolateGlory · 17/12/2021 09:11

I work with quite a multicultural team who talk openly about their own cultural and religious festivals but they all also seem to celebrate Christmas. We are all in European, predominantly Christian countries so it's a cultural thing for all of us - the main seasonal celebration in our home countries - why would we not get involved? Grin

DottyHarmer · 17/12/2021 09:13

There was a very spirited thread some years ago about hummus (insert spelling of choice). People were tug-of-warring over its origins. Someone trumpeted that they only bought it from a Libyan deli and there were other virtue-signalling top trumps.

What made me Shock was when one prolific right-on poster of old said we should only cook curries etc if we asked an Indian person for a traditional family recipe. Shock Can you imagine how rude and patronising it would be to accost, I dunno, the Finance Director of your company and cloyingly ask them for “traditional” recipes?!

Moonmelodies · 17/12/2021 09:14

@Cupcakeschocolate

I don't understand why Christmas is in December as Jesus was born in the spring
That would be because much of the Bible is appropriated from older religions, many of which involve celebrating the winter solstice and the apparent rebirth of the sun a few days later, as it can then be seen to get higher in the sky.
MedusasBadHairDay · 17/12/2021 09:16

@Overthinkingx3

Just because people don’t understand what cultural appropriation is ( how hypocritical it is to pick and choose titbits from cultures whilst also oppressing them and disrespecting them) doesn’t mean cultural appropriation isn’t a thing It is

Anyone in a nation celebrating a festival which can be both cultural and religious , or both - is not appropriation … unless they live on the moon and are planning to send a meteorite down to blast us. That would be cultural appropriation.

OP - you are being very unreasonable to ask such a goady question

This.

And ffs some of the "examples" of cultural appropriation are just straight up racism.

antisocialsocialclub · 17/12/2021 09:22

@Cupcakeschocolate

I don't understand why Christmas is in December as Jesus was born in the spring
@Cupcakeschocolate Because the Church wanted to stamp out the Pagan traditions, in favour of Christianity, in this case Yule.

If you wonder what Easter eggs have to do with Easter and Christ as well, it’s because it used to be Ostara, the Pagan festival of fertility. Smile

ChristmasRobins · 17/12/2021 09:26

I'm a Christian and I don't think it's cultural appropriation for atheists to celebrate. The roots of Christmas are complex: of course it celebrates the birth of Christ but it also piggy-backed on sol invictus and yule- we all need a bit of a light in the darkness. And Christmas as celebrated now is also complex and multi-layered- it's a religious festival but also a cultural festival and the things we cherish especially at Christmas are relevant to all- family, friends, love for one's fellow humans, help for those in need, magic (understood however you wish), tradition (ditto), generosity (ditto) etc etc.

Lots of the things we enjoy at Christmas, even Christians, are not Christian in origin and relate to its pagan roots or to a mix of pagan and Christian (Father Christmas, say, who comes from pagan figures of plenty and magic- rather like a winter version of a green man, via the medieval figure of Father or Lord Christmas- rather like the ghost of Christmas Present in ACC- and then mixes up with the Christian Saint Nicholas to give us our current FC/Santa). It's all a mish-mash.

What's more, my understanding is that cultural appropriation is not about respectfully celebrating and enjoying things from other people's cultures, but about a majority culture taking things from a minority culture without respect or understanding and using them for their own ends. So atheists enjoying Christian hymns? Marvellous, I love them too.

Alondra · 17/12/2021 09:27

@Katbut

The Jamie O chorizo thing was some time ago. He put it in a recipe on TV and there was an outcry of cultural appropriation. It was definitely in the papers at the time.
I remember the thing with Jamie O, the chorizo and the paella, and sorry but I have no idea where you get your "outcry of cultural appropriation in Spain" from . There was criticism in twitter most of it quite funny, mostly because as a TV chef he seemed to have no concept that you can't put whatever Spanish produce you have on hand on a paella just because you like it. Paella is a traditional dish and chorizo doesn't go in it. There are plenty of rice dishes with chorizo in Spain.....they are just not paella, they are rice with things.

Anyway....from the mostly sarcastic good ribbing JO received on twitter to "cultural appropriation" is whole different ball game. I had quite a few laughs at the time and I never read anything relating to cultural missapropriation.

Tanith · 17/12/2021 09:32

Oh, I am so sick of this rubbish claim that Christmas is a Pagan festival!! It's posted every bloody year!

No, it is not!

Yule is a separate Pagan festival that is still celebrated today. It's offensive to both Christians and Pagans to claim that Christmas is Yule.
No other religion has to put up with its festivals being denied in this way, yet all religions have their seasonal festivals around the same time and use similar means to celebrate.

Give it a rest! Christmas is Christmas - "Christ's Mass" - a Christian festival that's celebrated in both religious and non-religious ways.
So far as I'm concerned, the more celebration, for whatever reason, the better. I really hate the joyless thought policing that is "culture appropriation".

ufucoffee · 17/12/2021 09:33

I'm not confused about the current wokeism or rules about cultural appropriation because I couldn't give a shit about any of it. If I wanted to wear my hair in corn rows I would. Etc etc.

loislovesstewie · 17/12/2021 09:34

@Cupcakeschocolate

I don't understand why Christmas is in December as Jesus was born in the spring
I thought he was born in September as the shepherds were keeping watch over their flocks in the fields by night. After the harvest the sheep would have been turned loose to eat up what was left, they would then have left their manure over the field ready to rot for the time of spring planting.(I realize that is derailing the thread BTW.)
Hemingwayscatz · 17/12/2021 09:34

As others have pointed out, Christians are appropriating a Pagan festival.

That point aside, most Christians I know are happy for anyone to celebrate Christmas regardless of their religion or lack of.

kmblark · 17/12/2021 10:12

@fournonblondes

I do mind if people from all backgrounds join to celebrate Christmas. What I dislike is people from other religions coming to Christian countries to try to ban our traditions. Christmas, Halloween, eating certain types or meats, having dogs as pets. I had a few bad experiences with this.
Can't say I've ever heard of anyone trying to ban any of those things.