Is it cultural appropriation to celebrate Christmas if you're not a Christian?

[Katbut]

OK slightly goady title as I don't think it is cultural appropriation at all but I'm so confused about current political correctness/wokeism about cultural appropriation. It doesn't make any sense to me.

From what I've read in the media recently, it's cultural appropriation to:

Have corn rows etc. if you're white.
Use chorizo in paella.
Let kids play cowboys and Indians.
Represent traditional cultures in theatre (eg removal of Arabian/Chinese dances in the Nutcracker ballet).
Look too tanned in case people think you're trying to look like a different race.

I'm sure there's loads more examples but it's late and my brain isn't working.

If all of these sorts of things are cultural appropriation, why is it OK for atheists to celebrate Christmas? I know the Christians adapted various pagan traditions into Christmas but the idea of "Christ"mas is purely Christian. How is this any different than other forms of cultural appropriation?

(For what it's worth, I personally think the whole cultural appropriation thing is massive overkill - it's often cultural appreciation rather than appropriation).

Just a random Friday night musing...

Even without learning roots, it's clear to see how basic human nature wants to cheer itself in the darkest days of the year.
If non of these were invented we would have invented them.
To me it's more of than anything like trees, decorations, jesus, pagans...

It's all humans being hopeful. It's a wonderful creation.

Christianity has spent literally their entire existence trying to push itself on the world, why would it care about being appropriated? Tis the whole point of religion, to spread.

Cultural appropriation is meant to be about people taking things from minority cultures that they are persecuted for, celebrating them on white people and not giving credit to where it originally came from.

Oh and my grandma is Spanish and she puts chorizo in her paella, loads of people in Spain do, it's just the original valencian paella doesn't have it and that's the supposedly 'authentic' one, as if women in kitchens across Northern Spain don't count.

I've just read that during saturnalia, inversion was required and wealthy Romans were obliged to pay a month's rent of people who struggled??

I totally agree OP. The world has gone mad

Well not really as Christmas was originally the Pagan festival of Yule so you could say Christians culturally appropriated it themselves

this^ its the ultimate cultural appropriation that you didn't even realise it was someone else festival

I get what you're saying OP. Can you imagine if [insert name of white celebrity with no relevant familial links] made social media posts about celebrating Diwali or Kwanzaa? They'd be hounded off SM and cancelled. Remember when Adele got cornrows to celebrate the Notting Hill Carnival?

My dh is Muslim but we celebrate Christmas with presents etc. I don’t think that’s hypocritical or appropriation as that’s how I was brought up. However, I do think it’s extremely odd that my very religious Muslim SIL, who lives in a Muslim country, has started to do Christmas traditions with her dcs. Only this morning she sent DH a photo of her ds dressed as Father Christmas. It’s odd. Plus she started to do Halloween with them - American style. I’m Scottish. Please don’t get me started about how Americans ruined Halloween.

@zafferana people from other religions actually tend to be very welcoming of people joining them. The difference is that Christianity is the dominant cultural force in this country and Christians hold cultural power.

I'm not saying people from those cultures would kick up a fuss @Pedalpushers, more like random trolls on SM!

The fact that minority people in Britain feel pressured into doing Christmas- at school and offices may indicate it is the opposite of appropriation

Thailand celebrates Christmas at New Year. They remove the Christian references, and have Christmas lights that can be seen from space, Christmas trees three stories high, giant teddy bears that if they fell over would kill a small child, fake snow etc. They are big on anything sparkly, secret Santa present giving and getting completely smashed. My mother remarked that they celebrate Christmas better than the west.
Oh, and they turn the Hindu festival of Diwali into the Thai festival of Loy Krathong.

IMHO, just go for it, enjoy it, and go "bah humbug" if anyone brings up cultural appropriation.

@Gilmorehill

My dh is Muslim but we celebrate Christmas with presents etc. I don’t think that’s hypocritical or appropriation as that’s how I was brought up. However, I do think it’s extremely odd that my very religious Muslim SIL, who lives in a Muslim country, has started to do Christmas traditions with her dcs. Only this morning she sent DH a photo of her ds dressed as Father Christmas. It’s odd. Plus she started to do Halloween with them - American style. I’m Scottish. Please don’t get me started about how Americans ruined Halloween.

Jesus is a prophet in Islam, so I don't think it's TOO weird to do Christmas (religiously at least)

"I'm a very committed evangelical Christian (in a very uk left wing way, not American!!)"

This is a very ignorant statement. American Christianity is incredibly diverse. Even American evangelical Christianity is very diverse.

And as far as Scotland and Wales go, in one way, they are not the same as England. Yet, the three together are equal components of Great Britain. And with Northern Ireland, are equal components of the United Kingdom. And with the Republic of Ireland, are equal components of the British Isles. So in other ways, they ARE the same as England. There is more than one way to see a thing sometimes.

The anti-Americanism on this thread is giving me a good laugh. The provincialism amazes me. And BTW, traditionally, paella didn't even have seafood. Originally, the main ingredients were rabbit, chicken, duck, and snails. So chorizo snobs can clamber down from their high horses.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paella

@PrincessNutella

"I'm a very committed evangelical Christian (in a very uk left wing way, not American!!)"

This is a very ignorant statement. American Christianity is incredibly diverse. Even American evangelical Christianity is very diverse.

And as far as Scotland and Wales go, in one way, they are not the same as England. Yet, the three together are equal components of Great Britain. And with Northern Ireland, are equal components of the United Kingdom. And with the Republic of Ireland, are equal components of the British Isles. So in other ways, they ARE the same as England. There is more than one way to see a thing sometimes.

That's like saying Sweden in the same as China because they're part of the same planet.

And with Northern Ireland, are equal components of the United Kingdom. And with the Republic of Ireland, are equal components of the British Isles

Define 'equal'...

(Actually, don't. That's a different thread entirely)

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are not the same as England. I'm guessing you are English? It tends to be the English that think everything in the UK = England.

Would you say England is the same as Northern Ireland? Just curious.

Well I'm confused. How can it be cultural appropriation to put chorizo in paella?

It is one of the basic ingredients. Does chorizo have some monumental cultural or religious significance that I'm unaware of?

This is getting serious.

@ToykotoLosAngeles

Cultural appropriation is normally most frowned upon when a dominant culture picks and chooses elements from a minority culture. I'm not sure atheist/Christian qualifies.

Cultural appropriation goes further than merely picking up and choosing elements from a minority culture. It is then demeaning those elements by using them in an ignorant, casual or trite way and without due deference, when to the original culture they have considerable cultural, religious or other significance.

@MissMinutes24

I still can't get over the fact that Americans' biggest festival (it's bigger than Christmas) is to celebrate the day their forefathers came and slaughtered a bunch of Native Americans and stole their land.

Thanksgiving should have been the first festival to go under the new wokeism rules but apparently they still love it.

We have family in the USA. My BIL explained it to me. When the pilgrims arrived, they were farmers and their families, the crops they'd brought with them had failed, and they were on the point of starvation. The indigenous people introduced them to corn, turkeys and cranberries, and that food helped the incomers to survive.

Which is why they eat turkey with cranberry sauce and sweetcorn at Thanksgiving.

So in a way it is giving thanks for a good harvest. There are similar other thanksgiving festivals in other parts of the world too.

England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland are the same in that they hold equal status as countries that make up the UK (although Northern Ireland is variously described as a country, province or region). It wouldn't make sense to compare England to the United States, because England is not an independent nation. It would also not make sense to compare England to Edinburgh, because one is a country and one is a city, even if both begin with the letter E. Unless you are comparing places that begin with the letter E. But it wouldn't be a satisfactory comparison.

Dodo---graciously done!

@FluffyBooBoo

And with Northern Ireland, are equal components of the United Kingdom. And with the Republic of Ireland, are equal components of the British Isles

Define 'equal'...

(Actually, don't. That's a different thread entirely)

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are not the same as England. I'm guessing you are English? It tends to be the English that think everything in the UK = England.

Would you say England is the same as Northern Ireland? Just curious.

I think England basically assumes any people who drink tea but don't grow it as one of their own.

@PrincessNutella

England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland are the same in that they hold equal status as countries that make up the UK (although Northern Ireland is variously described as a country, province or region). It wouldn't make sense to compare England to the United States, because England is not an independent nation. It would also not make sense to compare England to Edinburgh, because one is a country and one is a city, even if both begin with the letter E. Unless you are comparing places that begin with the letter E. But it wouldn't be a satisfactory comparison.

But you mentioned the Republic or Ireland, which is an independent nation.

It any case, just because the home nations make up one country doesn't mean they are all the same.

@AnotherOneWithNoGoodName as I’ve been married to a Muslim man for many years, I’m well aware that Jesus is a prophet in Islam. That has nothing to do with Christmas trees or Santa Claus, who is a character derived from a saint. My SIL is not taking the religious element and educating her dcs, she’s talking the cultural, admittedly materialistic part in order to justify more gifts for her dcs. (She managed to persuade my ILs to pay for $300 of Lego- on top of Eid money)