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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is it cultural appropriation to celebrate Christmas if you're not a Christian?

323 replies

Katbut · 16/12/2021 23:53

OK slightly goady title as I don't think it is cultural appropriation at all but I'm so confused about current political correctness/wokeism about cultural appropriation. It doesn't make any sense to me.

From what I've read in the media recently, it's cultural appropriation to:

Have corn rows etc. if you're white.
Use chorizo in paella.
Let kids play cowboys and Indians.
Represent traditional cultures in theatre (eg removal of Arabian/Chinese dances in the Nutcracker ballet).
Look too tanned in case people think you're trying to look like a different race.

I'm sure there's loads more examples but it's late and my brain isn't working.

If all of these sorts of things are cultural appropriation, why is it OK for atheists to celebrate Christmas? I know the Christians adapted various pagan traditions into Christmas but the idea of "Christ"mas is purely Christian. How is this any different than other forms of cultural appropriation?

(For what it's worth, I personally think the whole cultural appropriation thing is massive overkill - it's often cultural appreciation rather than appropriation).

Just a random Friday night musing...

OP posts:
antisocialsocialclub · 16/12/2021 23:55

Well not really as Christmas was originally the Pagan festival of Yule so you could say Christians culturally appropriated it themselves 😂

Original poster
Katbut · 16/12/2021 23:55

Sorry I made the voting unclear.

YABU = atheists celebrating Christmas is not cultural appropriation but the other things listed are.

YANBU = if you accept that all the other things listed are cultural appropriation then celebrating Christmas as an atheist also comes under this category.

OP posts:
SpittinKitten · 16/12/2021 23:55

YABVU - it's Thursday night.

esloquehay · 16/12/2021 23:56

Isn't it Thursday? 🤔

Disabrie22 · 16/12/2021 23:56

Because being Christian isn’t necessarily a culture - it’s a faith. Faith is supposed to be for everyone - therefore it can’t be appropriated.

Original poster
Katbut · 16/12/2021 23:56

@antisocialsocialclub

Well not really as Christmas was originally the Pagan festival of Yule so you could say Christians culturally appropriated it themselves 😂
So by that argument a Christian Christmas is cultural appropriation and should be considered offensive according to current "woke" thinking?
OP posts:
ThrobbingToothacheOfTheMind · 16/12/2021 23:57

What’s this about chorizo in paella?

MatildaIThink · 16/12/2021 23:57

Christmas has little to nothing to do with Christ in the way it is now celebrated, trees, snow, reindeer, a fast man in a red suit with a beard, even presents, none of that is related to a middle eastern Jew born in March-April in 4-3 BC.

PS, it is Thursday not Friday.

Original poster
Katbut · 16/12/2021 23:58

@SpittinKitten

YABVU - it's Thursday night.
🤣 Oh dear. Feels like a Friday as my DC have broken up from school and I had a glass or two of wine 😳
OP posts:
Original poster
Katbut · 16/12/2021 23:59

@ThrobbingToothacheOfTheMind

What’s this about chorizo in paella?
Jamie Oliver got massively criticised for cultural appropriation for a paella recipe where he used chorizo as it's not traditional in Spain.
OP posts:
Swirlywoo · 16/12/2021 23:59

I think it's not just a religious festival but a tradition, one which, as a country with both pagan and Christian history, has been in some way celebrated for centuries.

Original poster
Katbut · 16/12/2021 23:59

@MatildaIThink

Christmas has little to nothing to do with Christ in the way it is now celebrated, trees, snow, reindeer, a fast man in a red suit with a beard, even presents, none of that is related to a middle eastern Jew born in March-April in 4-3 BC.

PS, it is Thursday not Friday.

Exactly. So atheists have culturally appropriated it?!
OP posts:
XmasSadface · 16/12/2021 23:59

Atheists who celebrate Christmas are generally culturally Christian just not religiously Christian

Somepup100 · 17/12/2021 00:00

I celebrate Christmas but not Christ. I celebrate family and all being together for a few days having fun together. Christians don't have the monopoly on that.

WhoopsWhatsMyNameAgain · 17/12/2021 00:00

No.

Original poster
Katbut · 17/12/2021 00:01

@Swirlywoo

I think it's not just a religious festival but a tradition, one which, as a country with both pagan and Christian history, has been in some way celebrated for centuries.
But the Christians appropriated it from the Pagans and now the atheists have appropriated it from the Christians, so surely under current woke rules Christmas is hugely offensive and should be cancelled?
OP posts:
MatildaIThink · 17/12/2021 00:01

No, they have improved it, they got rid of the religious junk and just enjoy spending time with friends and family.

Original poster
Katbut · 17/12/2021 00:02

@XmasSadface

Atheists who celebrate Christmas are generally culturally Christian just not religiously Christian
Isn't that the definition of cultural appropriation?
OP posts:
ImustLearn2Cook · 17/12/2021 00:02

@Katbut Cultural appreciation, I like that. It has a sense of sharing, learning, connecting, friendliness and community spirit.

However, cultural appropriation is a bit different and I think some of us have lost sight of what it actually is. As a consequence cultural appreciation is being subsumed by cultural appropriation.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 17/12/2021 00:03

none of that is related to a middle eastern Jew born in March-April in 4-3 BC.

^^
See, I know there’s a lot of evidence that Jesus was born in either March/ April or September (I think these were the times when the sheep were in the fields?), but surely it’s obvious he was a typical Capricorn???

(Lighthearted, if anyone gets cross with me!)

Original poster
Katbut · 17/12/2021 00:03

@MatildaIThink

No, they have improved it, they got rid of the religious junk and just enjoy spending time with friends and family.
I get rid of the seafood junk in paella and add chorizo which I enjoy much more. But apparently that is offensive now.
OP posts:
constance1 · 17/12/2021 00:04

It's really a celebration of the winter solstice that was appropriated by Christians, so are you saying OP that we are appropriating an appropriated festival? How ironic of us all Smile

Original poster
Katbut · 17/12/2021 00:04

[quote ImustLearn2Cook]@Katbut Cultural appreciation, I like that. It has a sense of sharing, learning, connecting, friendliness and community spirit.

However, cultural appropriation is a bit different and I think some of us have lost sight of what it actually is. As a consequence cultural appreciation is being subsumed by cultural appropriation.[/quote]
Completely agree.

OP posts:
ToykotoLosAngeles · 17/12/2021 00:04

Cultural appropriation is normally most frowned upon when a dominant culture picks and chooses elements from a minority culture. I'm not sure atheist/Christian qualifies.

HeddaGarbled · 17/12/2021 00:05

That is a good question!

I think, people feel it’s cultural appropriation when it’s the dominant culture adopting the characteristics of a minority or historically subjugated culture: playing with the ‘fashion’ without having experienced what it is truly like to be of that culture.

In a predominantly (at least historically) Christian culture, that wouldn’t be the case, and is just conforming to cultural norms.

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