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Original poster

Two - nationality families

192 replies

Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 13:54

Does anyone else go through this?
My background - my mum is Irish and my Dad is English.
I was born in England. My parents divorced and I moved with my mum back to Ireland when I was 7. My parents had a bitter divorce and my mother hates my dad, and really all things English.

I was born in England and I feel English. I just live in Ireland now.

Anytime that I am with my mother, she insults the English. She will openly talk with hatred about English people, she just hates them.
This seems to come from her upbringing where as a child in Ireland she was taught by her Irish relatives to hate English people. And also comes from her hatred of my English father now too .

For example, I just visited her today. She went on a trip to Wales last year. I asked her how it was and she said "oh they hate the English there, sure the English took them over, like the English took Ireland and Scotland over". She will also say things like "the Irish are well liked around the world and the English aren't".

I just feel so deeply wounded every time I talk to her.
I, her daughter, was born in England! I'm English, and my own mother constantly tells me how much she hates the English. It really wounds me and affects my self esteem. I'm not sure how to deal with her. I've told her before it upsets me but she does it anyway. She is 73 and will just ramble on

I know the easiest answer is to cut her off. But I think I would feel too guilty to do that.

I'm just not sure how to deal with her. Any advice?

OP posts:
ChangeChingyChange · 14/12/2021 15:01

Weirdly my mum is Irish and my dad is English. I have both passports and have lived for long periods in both places.

This sounds to me that really she just hates/is bitter about your dad and so is manifesting it as this English hatred. Since she's 73 now I assume this has been going on an awful long time, I'd just ignore and carry on or ask her not to say stupid shit like that around you considering you are English too.

catstaff · 14/12/2021 15:20

She might get the message if you just join in with her and take it to the extreme. “Oh look, it’s raining again today. That’s because of the English, that is.” Or, “No sorry, you can’t have a cup of tea - that tea was imported by the English!” Turn off her favourite TV shows that are either spoken or set in England. Or, if all else fails, go in speaking Gaelic and nothing else.

PAFMO · 14/12/2021 15:27

Well, start by telling her you're British, not English.
Then tell her that the rest of the UK can't be held to blame because she picked a "wrong un" and the chip on her shoulder must get very wearisome.
And then, yes, as others have said, just take the piss.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 14/12/2021 15:28

Oh I have this too!

My maternal grandfather was Italian, and my Mums family are always “the English this, the English that”. To the extent I never really think of myself as English.

I do think of myself as British these days, which actually I prefer as I’m part Scottish and part Welsh too.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 14/12/2021 15:30

But I find myself feeling quite “other” in this country because of the way my family are. Supporting England at sport is jsut not allowed, or GB when it’s all in one team, although supporting the women’s teams seems to be ok (bizarrely)

Spinxsta · 14/12/2021 15:33

My sister married a Frenchman who hates Britain. They live in France with their children. He constantly goes on about how shit we are and everything in Britain is shit... I do wonder what impact this will have on their half British kids.

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/12/2021 15:34

Yup. And I'm another different nationality to my daughter as well as my parents. We have the wandering gene.

My granny did it right. "Oh we have to get you back there, you'd love it". My dad, sometimes not fantastically, a bit like your mum. I found, "you're talking about me when you say that" worked. Also, quoting Goodness Gracious Me was good, "Superman, Indian, Michelangelo, Indian". Grin Not on the telly now of course.

LittleRoundRobin · 14/12/2021 15:34

Funny how some people find it so easy to be so massively insulting towards the English. The English get berated and slated and spoken about like they're shit, moreso than any other nationality.

Your mother is a disgrace @Mufasa1118 and I would go full-on 'no contact' if I were you.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 14/12/2021 15:38

Also, quoting Goodness Gracious Me was good, "Superman, Indian, Michelangelo, Indian". grin Not on the telly now of course.

^^
That character was really familiar to me!

“Do you know what else is Indian (or Italian in my case”? Shampoo. And conditioner!”

RuggerHug · 14/12/2021 15:39

Just going by her age and depending on when she moved to England she probably had to put up with a lot of anti Irish racism(I'm not saying that's an excuse!) but have you said whenever she says something "DM, I'm half English, do you really mean me when you say that?"

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/12/2021 15:40

“Do you know what else is Indian (or Italian in my case”? Shampoo. And conditioner!”

So.
Much.
This.

orinocono · 14/12/2021 15:40

This reply has been deleted

Hi all - we're afraid that we don't believe the OP is genuine. We've removed their threads and posts.

FelinaDaHousecat · 14/12/2021 15:43

@LittleRoundRobin

Funny how some people find it so easy to be so massively insulting towards the English. The English get berated and slated and spoken about like they're shit, moreso than any other nationality.

Your mother is a disgrace @Mufasa1118 and I would go full-on 'no contact' if I were you.

Do you think the empire, with its plundering, stealing and colonising, together with a misplaced sense of superiority, and an aggressive policy in its own country and a stifling class system, may have something to do with the fact that the English aren't exactly on top of the world's Xmas list? :)
MrsTerryPratchett · 14/12/2021 15:45

Funny how some people find it so easy to be so massively insulting towards the English. The English get berated and slated and spoken about like they're shit, moreso than any other nationality.

What bollocks. Try being German or Israeli or Chinese. Having travelled all over the world, the places the English are slagged off are; some of the places they've brutally colonised (but not all by any means), places the British tourists act like twats, England. Everyone else is lovely to the English.

MarshaBradyo · 14/12/2021 15:48

That’s not good at all

We’re three - Aus / U.K. but also Mum is half French so some of that culture

There was a little bit of - French know his to cook, English do some things better etc but very light touch

Now the Aus pride is more coming through

But I wouldn’t have liked what you are experiencing, it’s not right

Original poster
Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 15:48

@LittleRoundRobin I agree with you. A lot of people seem to think it is perfectly acceptable to absolutely hate the English. Not just my my mother

If I point out to them that this is wrong, they say something like "well they take us over and invaded us so they started it"

What, because some people from England invaded your country hundreds of years ago, you must hate everyone born in England now? We are different people! Being born on the same land as someone else does not make you responsible for what they did

It is blind hatred. It drives me mad. I hate it.

OP posts:
AnnaPerenna · 14/12/2021 15:54

We are a three-nations family: Scottish and Swiss parents but we live in England and our kids are born in England and are British - one of them identifies as European/Swiss, currently studying in Milan and dislikes 'Englishness' because it's associated with the Empire and Brexit; my other offspring identifies as British/English and supports England and believes that there is a way of being English that is tolerant, liberal and progressive.

Original poster
Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 15:54

@felinadaHousecat.

The UK were not the only country to colonise other countries. The Netherlands colonised Indonesia. I used to work in Indonesia. And they told me how there how the Netherlands took them over and colonised them
Spain also colonised many countries.

A lot of countries colonised other countries. That is how it was in history. People were taking land everywhere.

And 2) it is not the Current people in the UK who did it. The current people are not responsible.

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 14/12/2021 15:59

A lot of countries colonised other countries. That is how it was in history. People were taking land everywhere.

And everyone is still dealing with the consequences, both good (for us) and bad (for them).

Regardless, that isn't the basis of your relationship with your mother, that's the point. I can politically have an issue but that shouldn't impact her personal relationship with you.

Cathy31 · 14/12/2021 18:22

If your my hates you, go no contact, of course. If your mum hates 'the English', and your identity as English matters more than your identity as her daughter, go no contact. I think that would be taking English national pride to a bit of an extreme, but each to their own.

I agree with @MrsTerryPratchett and @FelinaDaHousecat re the bigger picture here though. Spain And the Netherlands have come to terms much more fully with the atrocities committed in their names - there aren't many debates in those countries about benign empire, or about complex legacies, or 'at least we gave them trains '. Also, the Irish experience of 'British '/ 'English ' presence is a lot more recent than the nineteenth century (I think that's what you mean by when 'people were taking land everywhere'). Though, even back then, most people weren't 'taking land everywhere '. Mostly they were having it taken from them. Mostly by... Go on, OP, guess who... Wink

ShiftingSands21 · 14/12/2021 18:37

My DH and DF who are both from different countries both have a bit of blind hatred for the English going on. I always pull them up on it, and describe it as the blind prejudice it is, but I also find it quite amusing on some level! I’m not even English myself but it’s just all extremely ludicrous and based on nothing. If you try to get them to justify it, they struggle to give a coherent explanation!

happytoday73 · 14/12/2021 18:42

Mum stop insulting me...
.... Rinse and repeat...

MarshaBradyo · 14/12/2021 18:43

Say

Mum I’m English remember.. that’s insulting to me

cunningplan101 · 14/12/2021 18:58

@Cathy31 I think you are wrong about Spain. There are elected right-wing politicians in Spain who still claim the Spanish empire was one of the greatest civilising forces for good in the world. I doubt any British politician, even Nigel Farage, would come out and say that? (Even if they might think it, or mutter it over a glass of port in the club)

The leadr of Vox recently said of Empire: "Asking for forgiveness is part of cancel culture, of destroying the history of the nations of which we are so proud." Link: www.nytimes.com/2021/10/09/world/europe/spain-conservatives-conquistadors.html

And that's not to mention Franco. Spain is a perhaps the only previously fascist country which has never really come to terms with its fascism - they just changed from a fascist state to a democracy while keeping most of the fascist politicians in power.

Does that mean we should hate all Spanish people?

If someone said it was understandable for the Polish to hate the Germans, would we think that was sensible?

Original poster
Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 19:59

@Cathy31 have you forgotten about world war two in Europe? That happened last century, and it happened around the same time as the Irish/English problems.

Germany invaded far more countries last century than England did. I would never hold the current German people responsible.

OP posts: