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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Two - nationality families

192 replies

Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 13:54

Does anyone else go through this?
My background - my mum is Irish and my Dad is English.
I was born in England. My parents divorced and I moved with my mum back to Ireland when I was 7. My parents had a bitter divorce and my mother hates my dad, and really all things English.

I was born in England and I feel English. I just live in Ireland now.

Anytime that I am with my mother, she insults the English. She will openly talk with hatred about English people, she just hates them.
This seems to come from her upbringing where as a child in Ireland she was taught by her Irish relatives to hate English people. And also comes from her hatred of my English father now too .

For example, I just visited her today. She went on a trip to Wales last year. I asked her how it was and she said "oh they hate the English there, sure the English took them over, like the English took Ireland and Scotland over". She will also say things like "the Irish are well liked around the world and the English aren't".

I just feel so deeply wounded every time I talk to her.
I, her daughter, was born in England! I'm English, and my own mother constantly tells me how much she hates the English. It really wounds me and affects my self esteem. I'm not sure how to deal with her. I've told her before it upsets me but she does it anyway. She is 73 and will just ramble on

I know the easiest answer is to cut her off. But I think I would feel too guilty to do that.

I'm just not sure how to deal with her. Any advice?

OP posts:
RuggerHug · 14/12/2021 20:58

Also OP, you never said what her experience in England was.

LexMitior · 14/12/2021 20:59

I remember this when I was married to an Irishman; the first time it happened, I thought okay, second time, mmm okay, third time, well I wasn't going to change what was a bitter memory, but it was like Fawlty Towers where Basil goes on about Colditz salads.

I was about 25, and while there's a lot of bad history, I really couldn't get with the idea of nationalism which made it worse apparently, since I didn't seem to recognise one nationality good, other bad etc.

I still don't like nationalism, its just bitter crap for bitter people.

RobotValkyrie · 14/12/2021 21:01

Well, I'm from the EU, and my in-laws voted for Brexit, so I get you, OP. It stinks ("oh, but when I shit on them bloody foreigners coming here to steal our jobs and taking our school places and GP appointments, of course I don't mean you and your half-caste kids")

Weirdly enough, my own mum also rants about bloody migrants these days, and how the world would be a better place if people just stayed put where they are. She taunts me about my kids being foreign, seems to think I've lost my birth nationality, and wonders if we'd be allowed in when visiting them.
Her own mum came from abroad. Her 3 kids have moved abroad. And she travels for fun all the bloody time.
Maybe it's just an "older people talking shit" thing.

PAFMO · 14/12/2021 21:12

OP- on a thread on 3/12 you said you'd just moved (back) to England. (The post where you say the English are a cruel race and use the example of your Uncle telling his dog to bite you)
In your OP of this thread you say you "just live in Ireland now"
Forgive my perplexity.
I'm put guys, but AS is your friend.

PAFMO · 14/12/2021 21:12

*out

Forgothowmuchlhatehomeschoolin · 14/12/2021 21:13

My ex used to go on about hating the English too...even though he chose to live here from lreland. Gets boring v quickly....funny cos he still lives here even though we split years ago .
Don't get me started on how unwelcome some of his family members made me feel when we used to visit.
Can you tell your mum it is really hurtful?

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/12/2021 21:15

@stairway

MrsTerryPratchett the problem with calling people apologists is that it’s like you are expecting an apology. An apology from someone who has nothing to do with the crimes of colonisation other than being born in a certain geographical location. I gather apologists actually means not apologising though? Or maybe not giving the right kind of apology or explanation for something nothing to do with them.
That's not that 'apologist' means.

I have never once benefitted from English atrocities .

If you've used the railways, museums, public buildings, sewers, basically anything built by Empire money, you've benefited. The entire wraith of the country, including the financial sector which funds basically everything, is based on international systems set up through colonialism.

Some other countries acknowledge and attempt to reconcile this. Many English people including you, seem to have issues with that idea. Which is fine. But when other people are still living the downsides, they might not be particularly happy about it.

LexMitior · 14/12/2021 21:16

Oh yes I quite like the "England is a terrible country" but you are living in it! Ignore such people.

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/12/2021 21:20

@PAFMO

OP- on a thread on 3/12 you said you'd just moved (back) to England. (The post where you say the English are a cruel race and use the example of your Uncle telling his dog to bite you) In your OP of this thread you say you "just live in Ireland now" Forgive my perplexity. I'm put guys, but AS is your friend.
I bloody knew it. Thanks @PAFMO
PAFMO · 14/12/2021 21:23

@MrsTerryPratchett Brew

Fidgetty · 14/12/2021 22:04

Ah having read some of the background I would just cut her out OP. She sounds hateful and vile and the nationality thing is small beans compared to the rest of it.

Sorry you had such a horrible childhood Flowers

2irishmums2be · 14/12/2021 22:14

Sorry I know what you are referring to me,in my family we have a lot of tongue and cheek banter about this (but we can't say it to mu English brother in law,as he doesn't get our banter) like we can slag my sister "wouldnt you know you'd end up with with english man, for no other would have ye etc" however my English sis in law does (she's half Scottish and similar personality) we mean no harm at all. I have 4 English identifying nieces/nephews and I have many happy times in England and was going for them in the football last year - obviously if Ireland was there I'd have cheered them on instead

stairway · 14/12/2021 22:17

MrsTerryPratchett what does apologist mean exactly then. I’ve never understood this. It seems to mean not apologising or excusing maybe. We have short lifespans for a reason. So every new generation starts afresh and is not saddled with the shit of their ancestors.

Hankunamatata · 14/12/2021 22:20

Come to NI, it gets even more complicated

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/12/2021 22:25

@stairway

MrsTerryPratchett what does apologist mean exactly then. I’ve never understood this. It seems to mean not apologising or excusing maybe. We have short lifespans for a reason. So every new generation starts afresh and is not saddled with the shit of their ancestors.
It means defending it. In this case defending colonialism.

People don't need to apologise necessarily, although in the case of the Catholic Church or similar it's probably a good idea. But behaving as if history starts fresh each generation is denying the very obvious difference history makes in where we start.

Heruka · 14/12/2021 22:28

@Fidgetty

This sounds bizarre to me. Have you lived in Ireland full time since the age of 7? And you're now presumably in your 30s/40s judging by your mother's age? It really doesn't sound like that... You seem woefully ill-informed about the cultural context of your mothers feelings, which would be pretty much impossible for a child raised most of her life in Ireland. Surely you're just as Irish as you are English after that length of time? Something about this doesn't ring true to me and seems like there's an agenda here, but if I'm wrong I apologise and my advice would be to accept your mother isn't going to change her views at this stage of her life and you have to decide whether or not your can tolerate it. If not minismise contact.
This. For someone with Irish family you seem to understand very little of England/Britain’s history in Ireland. I’m sure your mother doesn’t feel she’s even talking about you, her child born from an Irish mother. However, you view yourself as English and I understand why it hurts. Have you told her it hurts?
Kendodd · 14/12/2021 22:31

@Cathy31 I think you are wrong about Spain. There are elected right-wing politicians in Spain who still claim the Spanish empire was one of the greatest civilising forces for good in the world. I doubt any British politician, even Nigel Farage, would come out and say that? (Even if they might think it, or mutter it over a glass of port in the club)

Actually believe Boris Johnson has said something very similar about Africa.

stairway · 14/12/2021 22:35

MrsTerryPratchett so why is the OP an apologist, She hasn’t defended colonisation, just said it has nothing to do with her. I like to think we start a fresh, It might be naive because humans like to saddle there children with beliefs etc but it is society saddling the children as children are born a blank canvas.

MrsTerryPratchett · 15/12/2021 00:29

@stairway

MrsTerryPratchett so why is the OP an apologist, She hasn’t defended colonisation, just said it has nothing to do with her. I like to think we start a fresh, It might be naive because humans like to saddle there children with beliefs etc but it is society saddling the children as children are born a blank canvas.
You can think that, but it's not true. If you believe that the colonialism which caused the genocide in Rwanda or the residential schools in Canada lasts one generation, you are sorely mistaken.
Heruka · 15/12/2021 07:40

Yes agreed, it is naive Stairway, and just scientifically inaccurate. Epigenetics show that the experiences of the famine can/have affected the genetics and lived experiences of subsequent generations.

madisonbridges · 15/12/2021 08:27

@Heruka. I think there's a lot of scepticism and pushback over the claim that, for example, famine can effect future generations. So although I don't know if Stairway is right or wrong, I do know that it's not right to say that they are scientifically inaccurate because not only has that claim not been proven, it's strongly held by most of the scientific community not to be true.

CounsellorTroi · 15/12/2021 08:36

My DH is English, I’m Welsh. He has lived in Wales for longer than he lived in England. If anything he is more anti English than I am! We have an arrangement re sport - he supports Wales at rugby at all times. I support England at football at all times except when they are playing Wales. Works for us.

madisonbridges · 15/12/2021 08:40

@CounsellorTroi. That's sad that you're anti English. Most of us quite nice really. 🙂

CounsellorTroi · 15/12/2021 08:56

I’m not anti English. I married an Englishman. I support the England football team.

It does annoy me when people use England as though it’s interchangeable with Britain/the UK though.

luinagreine · 15/12/2021 09:08

@Fidgetty

This sounds bizarre to me. Have you lived in Ireland full time since the age of 7? And you're now presumably in your 30s/40s judging by your mother's age? It really doesn't sound like that... You seem woefully ill-informed about the cultural context of your mothers feelings, which would be pretty much impossible for a child raised most of her life in Ireland. Surely you're just as Irish as you are English after that length of time? Something about this doesn't ring true to me and seems like there's an agenda here, but if I'm wrong I apologise and my advice would be to accept your mother isn't going to change her views at this stage of her life and you have to decide whether or not your can tolerate it. If not minismise contact.
I agree with this. How can you have grown up here, gone to school here and still think that the 2nd world war happened around the same time as the 'Irish/English problems'? Like it was just a couple of years of history, like it was just a wee 'problem'.
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