Two - nationality families

[Mufasa1118]

Does anyone else go through this?
My background - my mum is Irish and my Dad is English.
I was born in England. My parents divorced and I moved with my mum back to Ireland when I was 7. My parents had a bitter divorce and my mother hates my dad, and really all things English.

I was born in England and I feel English. I just live in Ireland now.

Anytime that I am with my mother, she insults the English. She will openly talk with hatred about English people, she just hates them.
This seems to come from her upbringing where as a child in Ireland she was taught by her Irish relatives to hate English people. And also comes from her hatred of my English father now too .

For example, I just visited her today. She went on a trip to Wales last year. I asked her how it was and she said "oh they hate the English there, sure the English took them over, like the English took Ireland and Scotland over". She will also say things like "the Irish are well liked around the world and the English aren't".

I just feel so deeply wounded every time I talk to her.
I, her daughter, was born in England! I'm English, and my own mother constantly tells me how much she hates the English. It really wounds me and affects my self esteem. I'm not sure how to deal with her. I've told her before it upsets me but she does it anyway. She is 73 and will just ramble on

I know the easiest answer is to cut her off. But I think I would feel too guilty to do that.

I'm just not sure how to deal with her. Any advice?

Where do you live? No need to name the town but north, west, south, east etc would do? It seems extraordinary that you can only name one English person from college and a family that are your relatives that you have come in contact with in Ireland. My dh is one of four siblings and him and another are married to people that were born in England. He had numerous relatives married to English people that either live in Ireland or England. My neighbour 2 down is English and another across the road. Multiple parents at the school gate. Like English people are everywhere here. Have you never lived outside of your small town? Sorry for all the questions I just find it crazy that you never seem to have met English people here. I lived on a small island with a tiny population for a while and that was more diverse than what you are describing.

[quote Mufasa1118]@lunagreine how do you do it! How do you not get abuse in Ireland? I would love to hear about this.

Do you tell people that you were born in England or do you not mention it?[/quote]
I have an English twang, it is obvious the minute I open my mouth that I was born in England. I don't talk about it though because I don't have anything to say about it. I grew up here, all of my cultural references, education, husband, kids etc are Irish. If people say where are you from I say I was born in Yorkshire but moved over here when I was a kid and lived in x until I moved away for college. At that point people usually say ah so your an x woman then or that's a gorgeous part of the country. That's all there is to say about it really, I don't know what else I would say?

@luinagreine I live in a small town in the midlands of Ireland now.

I have lived in Sligo before for four years for College. Yes, in those four years I only met one English person in Sligo. And I actually worked with her in my part time job. Every single person in my class of fifty people was Irish. That English woman that I knew since moved away from ireland

In my small town in midlands Ireland where I live now, I have only ever met one other English person. And that was Years ago. He has since moved away. I don't know anyone here now that was born in England.

I genuinely have not met anyone else from England here.

So I am a small town in the midlands of Ireland. Where do you live, general area?

Op, I am sorry that you are so unhappy.

This stood out for me.
I just feel so totally lonely in Ireland. It's hard to live like this. There just feels like hate directed towards me all the time. Everywhere I go.

This seems really extreme. People everywhere you go don’t hate you.

I wonder if some counselling would help you. You are lonely and unhappy and have a lot on your plate. You seem very isolated. Counselling might give you some strategies and insights.

@momoftwogirls2 there is hatred directed towards me in Ireland. Have you lived as an English person in Ireland?

One person said to me in Ireland once "its ok to be anything but English in Ireland". It is the one nationality that is hated here.

Unless you have lived as an English person in Ireland you can't know what it is like.

People have sent me private messages after this thread. They are English people who are living in Ireland, and they told me they feel the exact same way as I feel. That they have been through the same thing as me. I have never ever felt this level of hatred to me when I lived in Spain or the USA. I have to live in Ireland for the next year for family reasons.

I would just say to Irish people on here. Please think about how you talk to English people in Ireland. Please don't hate a whole nationality because of what people did in the past

Mufasa1118 I believe you, my brother suffered abuse just visiting Ireland as a tourist. Unless you are a time traveller how can anyone blame you for past atrocities. You mother is Irish though so I would just pretend to be Irish if anyone enquires.

Op, I am Irish living in Ireland.
True, I can’t know what it is like to live here as an English person.

Most people here are too busy getting on with their own lives to ‘hate’ anyone.
Even the term ‘hate the English’ doesn’t mean proper hate. Most often it is banter.
But I agree it isn’t a very nice thing to hear. And it is a sign of disrespect.

You are obviously extra sensitive to hearing anything along this line since you hear it from your mother. Most people would probably brush it off and think ‘arsehole’ about the person who said it.
It must be harder to be resilient when you are so lonely and unhappy.

You sound like you never felt settled here, but you must be here quite a long time? Have you ever tried to fit in? Do you want to fit in?

Have you ever thought of moving to a larger town, where there is more diversity? And find a new job? You might feel you fit in better.
It would probably be more driving for you but life is too short to be so unhappy.

She's just bigoted/xenophobic. There's a lot of it about unfortunately

People who are bigoted always think they aren't really but that they have an excuse for not liking THAT particular group. It doesn't count not liking THOSE people.They are the worst of the worst.

I’m sorry @MomOfTwoGirls2 I know exactly what the op is talking about. You won’t feel it as you’re not British. It’s not banter. Banter is completely different. It’s ingrained dislike and seems quite across the board. It’s not going to change any time soon which is why I’m getting out. I’ve been here for many many years but at last I’m free to go. I’ve been stuck for family reasons, I’m not anymore. I would never let on why I’m going in real life btw, I’m just going off. A lot of Brits here cannot stick their heads above the parapet- I know a Irish couple who’ve gone back to the Uk as the English born kids were bullied relentlessly in school because of their accents. My Irish kids have been called names at school for having an English mum so I can believe it - It’s not something the op requires counselling for or to move because of.

Sorry to hear that.

Where I live there are several English families and they fit in very well. But of course that is not to say they don’t also experience a level of this. They play an active part in the community and are liked and respected. But they are all get up and go people, full of confidence and full of life. So they will get on wherever they are.

If OP feels ‘hated’, it does seem extreme. At least hate in the way I understand the word.
Really, very few people have the conviction to actually hate someone (thankfully!)
Perhaps it is just her usage of the word and maybe she means disliked?

Even so, I feel bad that people are made to feel unwelcome and that they are disliked within their community for no reason other than being English. Or any other nationality for that matter.

About 12% of our population is non Irish. Times are changing.

But if she really does feel hated (real hate as opposed to not liked) by people all around her, wherever she goes, then I do think she might have deeper problems.

If someone says they experiencing xenophobia you believe them. You don't say
"Oh it's just banter"
"Well have you actually tried to fit in?"
"Well I know other people of that nationality and they seem to fit in fine"
"She must have mental problems if she feels like that" which is pretty much what you are insinuating despite other people confirming the same thing.

Oh and "It's only being disliked not hated"

I guarantee @MomOfTwoGirls2 if you knew me IRL you wouldn’t know I feel like this. I have to live here for the time being. I wouldn’t want to make it any worse for myself by broadcasting my true feelings.
I agree completely with you @HibiscusIsland

Ok, I have dug a deep enough hole for myself now. Yes you are right and I apologise.

OP and others, sorry if my comments made you feel bad. It really wasn’t my intention. I was insensitive and clumsy with my words.
I never doubted your experiences were real.

It’s not for me to suggest actions that I think would help, because I am not coming from a place of experience.

@HibiscusIsland

If someone says they experiencing xenophobia you believe them. You don't say "Oh it's just banter" "Well have you actually tried to fit in?" "Well I know other people of that nationality and they seem to fit in fine" "She must have mental problems if she feels like that" which is pretty much what you are insinuating despite other people confirming the same thing.

I have experienced xenophobia. In more than one country BTW. And you do make an effort to fit in, look at your own behaviour, and try to be resilient. And find your people, and see it for what it is.

And of course there is an element of MH in this. There's no shame or judgement in that. Walking around thinking every person hates you all the time is a MH issue, it is. One which needs support and counselling.

Yep OP I get it. Worst place in the world for it is Australia.

I was born in France ( parents on holiday - sudden unexpectedly early arrival!)
My father is German / Norwegian my mother is Spanish Scots, Welsh

Brought up in mainland Europe - Germany, Austria and Denmark
University in the UK
Lived and worked in Australia for long time
Married a Kiwi
Kids born in yet another country.

The hatred and xenophobia in OZ was extreme . All based on the fact they perceived I was English based on the way I speak. Ridiculous comments and behaviours even telling me I was lying - I was so obviously English. I entered the bloody country on a Norwegian passport but hey your common or garden Aussie could re define my nationality because ......

Was even told by one person that he would prefer to be German than English - based on English history. We were standing in the Melbourne Holocaust memorial at the time - seriously!

It is so unnecessary, so childish - shall I hate my German family becauseof WW1 and WW2, hate the Norwegian side because of the Vikings, the Scottish side just because they liked killing each other in Clan wars, the Welsh side for just being bloody Welsh, call my self French because by some quirk of fate I was born there, the Kiwi family for what they did to the Maori, The Spanish for invading everywhere else, the Catholic side because of Catholic repression, the Lutherans for sticking it up the Catholic Church.

All truly pathetic - I am a person of the world happy in my own skin and my heritage. I like bits of all and don't like bits of all - but they are mine and I define who I am, not some small minded bigot with their head stuck up their own small minded racist arse.

@MrsTerryPratchett it is not a mental health issue! You are Irish living in Ireland right? So you wouldn't know what it feels like!

I will tell you my experience from today! This was my day today.

I met up with a male friend in Ireland today . He is someone I worked with years ago. He is a nice guy. I am just recently back in Ireland after being away for a year.

We went to a pub/restaurant this afternoon. This particular man doesnt know that I was born in England and that my Dad was English. I have kept that information from certain Irish people as I am afraid of telling them! So he doesn't know that about me.

In our three hours in the pub this afternoon, he insulted "the English" five times.
I said to him that I had just visited London recently, he said to me that he had never been to England and he said
"I will never go there because I hate the English".

Later on we were talking about how we had both worked in Spain.
He said "I think people from all over Europe are attractive but I will never be with an English person ever, I hate the English, because I'm Irish right, that would go against who I am ."

I said "I have met many very nice English people".

He said "I hate English people because my grandad was there at 1916".

I said "yeah but those English people are all dead that has nothing to do with the current English people".

Then I was talking about working in Spain and about this English guy that I worked with, who had a Spanish girlfriend and he said "what the hell did she see in him, he's English".

I felt like crying! This particular guy doesn't know i was born in england and I had to listen to insults about the English for three hours. And I also even felt too afraid to say that I was born in England myself.

This is the reality here in Ireland!

Like the things he came out with over an afternoon cup of coffee today were shocking.

He said "I hate the English"
And he said "I would never be with an English person because I am Irish"

And he is a well educated, very nice (in all other areas) man. Why do people think it's ok to spew hatred about a nationality? Oh my god

You are Irish living in Ireland right? So you wouldn't know what it feels like!

I'm not. But I have repeatedly heard about he 'fucking Polish' in England. I have Polish heritage. I dump those people. And find nicer ones.

MrsTerryPratchett not so easy to dump her own mother though.

@stairway

MrsTerryPratchett not so easy to dump her own mother though.

There were loads of suggestions about that earlier in the thread. OP ignored them.

@MrsTerryPratchett I didn't ignore anything. Wow.

@mrsterrypratchett by "ignored them" you mean I didn't reply to every single post? If you look at every thread on here, you will rarely find one OP who replies to every single post. It doesn't mean I ignored anything. I read everything.