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AIBU?

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Original poster

Two - nationality families

192 replies

Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 13:54

Does anyone else go through this?
My background - my mum is Irish and my Dad is English.
I was born in England. My parents divorced and I moved with my mum back to Ireland when I was 7. My parents had a bitter divorce and my mother hates my dad, and really all things English.

I was born in England and I feel English. I just live in Ireland now.

Anytime that I am with my mother, she insults the English. She will openly talk with hatred about English people, she just hates them.
This seems to come from her upbringing where as a child in Ireland she was taught by her Irish relatives to hate English people. And also comes from her hatred of my English father now too .

For example, I just visited her today. She went on a trip to Wales last year. I asked her how it was and she said "oh they hate the English there, sure the English took them over, like the English took Ireland and Scotland over". She will also say things like "the Irish are well liked around the world and the English aren't".

I just feel so deeply wounded every time I talk to her.
I, her daughter, was born in England! I'm English, and my own mother constantly tells me how much she hates the English. It really wounds me and affects my self esteem. I'm not sure how to deal with her. I've told her before it upsets me but she does it anyway. She is 73 and will just ramble on

I know the easiest answer is to cut her off. But I think I would feel too guilty to do that.

I'm just not sure how to deal with her. Any advice?

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 14/12/2021 20:04

You started this thread to talk about personal relationships. It does rather look like it was started in bad faith to argue some shitty point about colonialism.

Original poster
Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 20:14

@MrsTerryPratchett threads are like conversations, they can flow from one topic to another.
I started this thread to talk about my mother's views about the UK

A different poster actually came on and talked about the UK colonising places. Which is related to the first topic. And then I replied to them.

That is how we are at the point we are talking about now. It was a natural flow

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 14/12/2021 20:20

You've only engaged with the stuff about colonalisation, not strategies about your mother.

You're deciding what to respond to.

People will be empathetic about your mum. But being an apologist for colonialisation which still affects billions of people? Not so much.

RocketPanda · 14/12/2021 20:21

Your mother is 73 so the legacy of the Irish struggle for freedom from Britain is in her living memory. The refugees from Northern Ireland are in mine and I'm a good bit younger than she is.
There's a wayside gravestone and famine cottages visible from my kitchen window and I live in an Irish speaking area of Ireland. The reality of the cruelty inflicted is still present today.

PAFMO · 14/12/2021 20:23

OP- you have said on many many threads that your mother severely abused you as a child. You're on all the Arthur Labinjo-Hughes threads talking about it.
I don't think her having a pop at the "English" is your biggest problem tbf.

Original poster
Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 20:25

@RocketPanda yes but still the current UK people didn't do any of that. I didn't do any of that. Just by being born in England doesn't make me responsible for any of that

I have to say Ive seen this attitude a lot in Ireland,. It's an attitude of "hate all the English ". I just don't agree with that

Being born in England does not make me responsible in any way for what people in England did before me.

I have a German friend here in Ireland. I would never say to her "you're awful and I hate you because of what Hitler did"
.
But many Irish people (not just my mother) have told me that they hate me just because I'm English. How is that ok?

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 14/12/2021 20:35

The Canadian government just set aside $40 BILLION for indigenous reparations. Recognising that what happened historically hurt First Nations people and helped white colonialists. English people still benefit from historical atrocities. They might not be to blame but just to say that history starts afresh when whole continents are worse off is a little self-serving.

Original poster
Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 20:35

@MrsTerryPratchett what a weird response! Im allowed to reply to whoever I want to. You don't control me.

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 14/12/2021 20:38

Of course I don't. I was replying to you saying it was just the way the conversation went. It wasn't, you chose. Which is fine.

But it does rather muddy the waters. As an abused child you are absolutely without fault and deserving of understanding.

As an apologist for colonialism, you aren't. If you want to have that conversation, see my post of 20.35.

RocketPanda · 14/12/2021 20:41

I know quite a lot of German people and there is generally a sense of shame when talking about anything to do with WW2. Not going around with their heads in the their hands type but a recognition of sorrow at what was done in their countries name. British and it seems especially English Pride and Self Righteousness is not even tinged with sorrow. Scotland has and continues for some of the population to seek independence, NI is all but forgotten and Wales is barely talked about.
I do wonder where in Ireland you are that people are saying they hate you. It's quite a multicultural little country now and there's plenty of English people working here and other than a one twit I know who thought we were all mucksavages I've never heard of any anti Englishness. Maybe it's just your family.

Mushypeasandchipstogo · 14/12/2021 20:41

My DH is Irish , I’m British. DC have both passports but follow Irish rugby teams. DH pretends that I’m Welsh as I come from a border town. To be honest nobody cares what we are in his and my family.

Original poster
Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 20:42

@MrsTerryPratchett "English people still benefit from historical atrocities".
There you go - grouping English people as a homogenous blob.

We are all different, individual people.

I have never once benefitted from English atrocities .

Lots of people in England are a mixture of nationalities. You can't just say "the English".

OP posts:
chutneygirl · 14/12/2021 20:43

My in-laws love to slag off england and the English so much until I like to remind them, the reason why their life is so cushty is because of being in England and because their ENGLISH daughter in law pays their mortgage and if they don't like it, then go get on a plane back to Kabul...

Seems to be a conversation stopper!

penguinwithasuitcase · 14/12/2021 20:44

@Mufasa1118 is she unpleasant to you in other ways?

Or is she mostly normal imperfect mother, with this deeply irritating habit?

All this chat about cutting her off / abuse sounds completely over the top to me unless there's a bigger context here (speaking as someone who's been NC with a genuinely abusive mother for the last 5 years, some of the immediate 'Go NC!' responses on here are really quite incredible)

Original poster
Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 20:45

@RocketPanda I live in rural ireland.its not just my family. I was in a pub once here and there was an old man complaining about the English.
My friend said something like "hey don't say that, mufasa here is English".

The man came over to me, got right in my face and said "who the fuck let you over here, you English bitch". "English cunt". I've had similiar to this said to me several times in my life.

OP posts:
Cyberworrier · 14/12/2021 20:46

Hi OP, I have family across the UK/Ireland too and have experienced similar, but I take it as light hearted teasing. I mean, Scotland's politicians and nobility were just as responsible for most of Britain's power/abuse of power as English ones so I take it all with a bit of a pinch of salt. From my family's perspective I take the Irish issue with England more seriously, but as you say it is not your personal responsibility, the terrible history. And groups with long term historical grudges are not helping the world. I'd try to just ignore, especially if there's the chance she's trying to actually upset you. With a few relatives I've told them it upsets me as I don't feel "properly" English as that's not my cultural frame of reference and none of my family are; they understand but it doesn't stop piss taking!

madisonbridges · 14/12/2021 20:47

My sister married a Frenchman who hates Britain. They live in France with their children. He constantly goes on about how shit we are...

But does he not realise that he's telling his children how shit their mother and their grandparents are? I think that makes him a far bigger shit. But that's the French for you! (😉 Just joking. I have lots of friends from France and used to live there.)

RocketPanda · 14/12/2021 20:47

If your ancestors were in Britain between the 1840s and 1890s you have benefitted.

stairway · 14/12/2021 20:50

MrsTerryPratchett the problem with calling people apologists is that it’s like you are expecting an apology. An apology from someone who has nothing to do with the crimes of colonisation other than being born in a certain geographical location. I gather apologists actually means not apologising though? Or maybe not giving the right kind of apology or explanation for something nothing to do with them.

Cyberworrier · 14/12/2021 20:51

Just seen your latest post- I've had similar whilst out with Irish family. It's not pleasant to experience. I'm not sure there's much we can do to change it! There's new sectarian graffiti in NI I hear from family, which is pretty depressing and scary.

Original poster
Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 20:51

@mushypeasandchipstogo, he pretends that you are from Wales instead of saying you are English? !!

OP posts:
Fidgetty · 14/12/2021 20:53

This sounds bizarre to me. Have you lived in Ireland full time since the age of 7? And you're now presumably in your 30s/40s judging by your mother's age? It really doesn't sound like that... You seem woefully ill-informed about the cultural context of your mothers feelings, which would be pretty much impossible for a child raised most of her life in Ireland. Surely you're just as Irish as you are English after that length of time? Something about this doesn't ring true to me and seems like there's an agenda here, but if I'm wrong I apologise and my advice would be to accept your mother isn't going to change her views at this stage of her life and you have to decide whether or not your can tolerate it. If not minismise contact.

madisonbridges · 14/12/2021 20:55

@Mushypeasandchipstogo

My DH is Irish , I’m British. DC have both passports but follow Irish rugby teams. DH pretends that I’m Welsh as I come from a border town. To be honest nobody cares what we are in his and my family.
It sounds like he cares!
RuggerHug · 14/12/2021 20:57

OP this was yesterday so saying living people didn't commit atrocities is wrong. But it is a separate discussion to your mother.

www.newstalk.com/news/miami-showband-survivor-on-settlement-full-court-hearing-would-have-been-disastrous-for-the-british-1289327

pointythings · 14/12/2021 20:57

My husband was Irish-American and hated anything that wasn't rabid Unionism - wouldn't accept that both side committed atrocities. He also hated the French. My cousin is half Dutch and hates the Dutch (I am Dutch) because of the way some Dutch kids bullied her at international school in Belgium.

I cannot be doing with any of it. Nationality isn't a reasonable cause for loathing someone. Judge people by their deeds. Flag waving patriotism should be confined to sports only.