Two - nationality families

[Mufasa1118]

Does anyone else go through this?
My background - my mum is Irish and my Dad is English.
I was born in England. My parents divorced and I moved with my mum back to Ireland when I was 7. My parents had a bitter divorce and my mother hates my dad, and really all things English.

I was born in England and I feel English. I just live in Ireland now.

Anytime that I am with my mother, she insults the English. She will openly talk with hatred about English people, she just hates them.
This seems to come from her upbringing where as a child in Ireland she was taught by her Irish relatives to hate English people. And also comes from her hatred of my English father now too .

For example, I just visited her today. She went on a trip to Wales last year. I asked her how it was and she said "oh they hate the English there, sure the English took them over, like the English took Ireland and Scotland over". She will also say things like "the Irish are well liked around the world and the English aren't".

I just feel so deeply wounded every time I talk to her.
I, her daughter, was born in England! I'm English, and my own mother constantly tells me how much she hates the English. It really wounds me and affects my self esteem. I'm not sure how to deal with her. I've told her before it upsets me but she does it anyway. She is 73 and will just ramble on

I know the easiest answer is to cut her off. But I think I would feel too guilty to do that.

I'm just not sure how to deal with her. Any advice?

I had a close family member come over about 3 years ago. She had such fond memories of holidays in Ireland but left wide-eyed at the anti British/English sentiment here. She had a very unpleasant event occur which I think has turned her right off.
I have a couple of friends from the Uk living here and I can say categorically we are not the only ones who feel like this op. Definitely not.

@lunagreine you said
"I agree with this. How can you have grown up here, gone to school here and still think that the 2nd world war happened around the same time as the 'Irish/English problems'? Like it was just a couple of years of history, like it was just a wee 'problem'."

I was replying to a poster who said this:
"Also, the Irish experience of 'British '/ 'English ' presence is a lot more recent than the nineteenth century"

I replied to say that World war two happened in the 20th century, in the same century as the Irish fight for independence.

I didn't say that they happened in the exact same year. They happened in the same century. So Ireland were not the only country to be invaded last century. Many, many countries in Europe were invaded.

Believe me I know every single year of the timeline of the Irish fight for independence. I just don't think it is anyway unusual, as so many countries in Europe were invaded last century. That is how last century was in Europe.

Ireland were not the only country to be invaded. But I have never seen the level of hatred anywhere in Europe that I have seen in Ireland. There is a crazy level of hatred to the English here. I wish both countries would move forward

Well. Its somehow supposed to be that the Irish and the English have something in common, but I think not, the older I get. When I was younger, and a bit more naive about these things, I thought such division shouldn't matter precisely because I was young.

The more investment you have in a division, the more you will assert it as significant, thats basic to nationalism, racism etc. My friend has an Irish partner and has had to put up with remarks about her skin colour (mixed race), and that she's not a real Brit. You cannot win on this stuff.

She obvs doesn’t see you as English. And you are half Irish and half English, but why on earth you’d insist on being ‘English’ when you have a choice between those two is beyond me!
She’s right bTW - go abroad anywhere and you’ll get a far better reception if people think you are Irish than if you were English.
She isn’t going to change now - you can only change your reaction to her so perhaps the best thing to do is remember that it’s not personal to you, she doesn’t see you as English. Being born in a country doesn’t automatically make you that nationality.
I have friends born abroad - India, Germany, Australia even the US - to British, or Irish or mixed parents who don’t consider theme selves to be Indian, German etc just because they were there during childhoods.

‘ There is a crazy level of hatred to the English here. ’

Wasn’t just 1916 though was it? It was the hundreds and hundreds of years before and the years after, and the false famines that Westminster let the Irish starve through. But being I. Ireland since you were 7 you would know all this, presumably.

@logsonlogsoff that has nothing to do with the people born in England now. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Can you explain how it has anything to with the people who are in England now?

Please write out clearly your thinking on this.

People from one country did something ages ago.
New people, who did nothing to anyone, but are just born on the same patch of land, get hatred for it

Can you explain that to me? That is what is so so scary about blind hatred.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

@logsonlogsoff "why on earth you'd insist on being English"

Eh because I am English. That is who I am. It is how I feel. I was born there. It is my identity.

I am never going to change nationality to make some people comfortable. Despite a lot of people wanting to knock the English out of me here in Ireland I still feel English.

The same way that I went to school with a girl from Portugal in Ireland. She was born in Portugal. She was half Irish. She always celebrated her Portuguese roots and lived a very Portuguese lifestyle. She considered herself Portuguese. You can't knock the nationality out of anyone. Its who we are.

@logsonlogsoff it's a bit shocking that you would say to me "why on earth would you insist on being English".

Would you say that to a Spanish person in Ireland for example? "Why on earth would you insist on being Spanish?"

Are you Irish?

OP again, have you ever asked your mother about her experience in England? And she's right, many Irish people had to immigrate. There's still a huge amount of ignorance regarding how Ireland has been affected (I posted a link above about a ruling on Monday). You seem to be only responding to some replies so I don't expect one but maybe ask your DM and listen to her. You've been in a country which half your heritage and most of your lifetime has been and you seem determined to deny it and be victimised by it. You could move back to England if it's so awful where you are, love for your Mother clear won't hold you where you are.

‘Would you say that to a Spanish person in Ireland for example? "Why on earth would you insist on being Spanish?"‘

Wondering why people might like the Irish more than the English might be one of THE most English things you’ve said Op 😜

Not if they were actually Spanish, as opposed to being born in Spain to an Irish parent then moved to Ireland as a young child and lived there ever after…

Ireland has been a republic for over 100 years. When will this weird hatred end? The Irish inhale British culture, watch BBC and Sky, shop in UK shops, know more about Uk politics than their own, support premiership teams way before and over league of Ireland teams. Love their weekends in London. But hate us all the same. Nuts.

@logsonlogsoff I know several people like that actually. There is a huge Spanish community here in my town in Ireland, so of course a lot of them are half Irish half Spanish.

I know a couple of people who were born in Spain, to an Irish parent and a Spanish parent and then later moved to Ireland.

These people consider themselves to be Spanish. The country where you are born is so important to your identity.

@RuggerHug yes I have thought many times about moving to England.
However I can't do it as I have family that needs me in Ireland.
I have an elderly mother in Ireland, and I have also one severely autistic brother who lives in Ireland. I need to be near my brother to help take care of him.

There are lots of nice things about Ireland for sure too. I will try to get my mind to think of the good things. Which there are in Ireland

I think your Mum is incredibly hostile.

But also confused about various other European countries and media implying they're 'perfect' somehow, I am mostly left wing/leaning heavily that way politically, media can spout some almighty lies and make everything out to be a love in with their people without the UK. For example, Poland; "the status of LGBTQ rights in Poland is the worst among European Union countries".

I'm pretty much if you're a dickhead then you're still a dickhead no matter where you originate from.

For what's worth OP, I reckon that its pretty hard to be old and feel that England, a country that isn't even your own, has shaped your life radically. It would be hard, and indeed, a fair bit harder if your children then identified with the place of birth and not your own nationality.

Its not just you - lots of dispora have mixed feelings - their children don't necessarily retain the identity the parents want and in the 20th century, after centuries of empire, suddenly Britain as a real thing basically disappeared very fast. Along with it went a lot of jingoistic attitudes and the pace of change in England has been very rapid since the 1960s. It doesn't mean that people Ireland thought the same, or changed in the same way regarding their attitudes. For some people, it still seems like a thing. If you were born in the second half of the twentieth century, it seems very odd.

Don't get hung up on the bitterness of the past - people are much happier when they feel free to be themselves, that's what happened in England from the 1960s onwards, its a good thing.

Modern Ireland is a lifetime away and continues to change; that is a good thing too. Enjoy your life.

As an Irish woman, living in Ireland, let me tell you now @Mufasa1118 the nation collectively raised an eyebrow when the ever-delightful Priti Patel threatened to "starve the Irish" over a recent-ish Brexit argument.
Laughable, pathetic rhetoric from Patel trying to threaten the 3rd most food secure country on the planet. I think Brexit will work well for us ultimately.
The reality is this

1 Most people in Ireland are busy, and as time goes on, Brits will become less relevant.
2 Most Irish people have family or friends in the UK somewhere and get on great

Priti Patel believes in the death penalty for her fellow citizens!

Ireland probably got off lightly, and she's an offensive ignoramus.

But she's not forever, no politician ever is. Lots of light, fury and absolutely no impact whatsoever.

SunscreenCentral, Priti Patel just isn’t a nice person because of who she is and not because of who her ancestors were.

I've only been to Ireland once, but I was surprised that most of the media seemed to be very closely related to British media, and everyone was interested in premier League teams and other English/British stuff. So it did not seem that different from the UK. This is obviously their choice, as I believe their have been initiatives to reinvigorate Irishness.

I guess in some ways though you hate those that you are closest to.

I've only been to Ireland once, but I was surprised that most of the media seemed to be very closely related to British media, and everyone was interested in premier League teams and other English/British stuff. So it did not seem that different from the UK. This is obviously their choice, as I believe their have been initiatives to reinvigorate Irishness.

Wow really, you learnt all of that one trip to Ireland! They tried to make us more Irish but we have chosen to act British, I don't even know where to start with that!

My exH would insult my nationality.

It's hurtful.
People who do it aren't nice and I wouldn't want to be around them.

@tttigress

I've only been to Ireland once, but I was surprised that most of the media seemed to be very closely related to British media, and everyone was interested in premier League teams and other English/British stuff. So it did not seem that different from the UK. This is obviously their choice, as I believe their have been initiatives to reinvigorate Irishness.

I guess in some ways though you hate those that you are closest to.

I like Father Ted. Not sure that makes me more Irish!

Tell the racist cunt to put a sock in it or you’ll go no contact.

To answer your original question OP, no not all 'two nationality' families have this issue. My parents are Irish and Filipino and neither has much negative commentary on the others country.

I do feel sorry for people who are both English and Irish though. They always seen caught in the middle. some English people have said quite ignorant things to me about Irish people and some Irish people are incredibly rude about the English.

I think you have to look at what people are taught to understand why they say the things they do - doesn't make it right obviously, but you can see why it happens. Irish people are taught a lot in school about what the English did in Ireland, and English people seem to be taught very little about their history with Ireland - resulting in different views.

@PinkSyCo

Tell the racist cunt to put a sock in it or you’ll go no contact.

English isn't a race.