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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Two - nationality families

192 replies

Mufasa1118 · 14/12/2021 13:54

Does anyone else go through this?
My background - my mum is Irish and my Dad is English.
I was born in England. My parents divorced and I moved with my mum back to Ireland when I was 7. My parents had a bitter divorce and my mother hates my dad, and really all things English.

I was born in England and I feel English. I just live in Ireland now.

Anytime that I am with my mother, she insults the English. She will openly talk with hatred about English people, she just hates them.
This seems to come from her upbringing where as a child in Ireland she was taught by her Irish relatives to hate English people. And also comes from her hatred of my English father now too .

For example, I just visited her today. She went on a trip to Wales last year. I asked her how it was and she said "oh they hate the English there, sure the English took them over, like the English took Ireland and Scotland over". She will also say things like "the Irish are well liked around the world and the English aren't".

I just feel so deeply wounded every time I talk to her.
I, her daughter, was born in England! I'm English, and my own mother constantly tells me how much she hates the English. It really wounds me and affects my self esteem. I'm not sure how to deal with her. I've told her before it upsets me but she does it anyway. She is 73 and will just ramble on

I know the easiest answer is to cut her off. But I think I would feel too guilty to do that.

I'm just not sure how to deal with her. Any advice?

OP posts:

rubyglitter · 15/12/2021 17:48

Your mum is incredibly xenophobic. You need to keep saying: “I’m English. Stop insulting me. Stop being xenophobic.” I am biracial (so 2 different races rather than just nationalities) and thankfully I don’t have racist/xenophobic family members. I would go no/low contact with those who were prejudiced against half of me.

JaneJeffer · 15/12/2021 17:54

This is obviously their choice, as I believe their have been initiatives to reinvigorate Irishness.
You should do a stand up tour of Ireland

LexMitior · 15/12/2021 18:11

I find this all very interesting as I am English, one child, Irish father.

It did not occur to me that this was going to be a thing that they were going to have to deal with, truly. But its been an eye opener in terms of suggested there has be a choice made re nationality, that one half is friendly, the other not, that one is a better choice than the other. Actually a bit worrisome on a few levels.

I am basically hoping that things move on without this life limiting shit. But who knows?

TheShoeFits · 15/12/2021 18:23

The reality is that over a long time we've sent our young men abroad to murder, rape, pillage, colonise, etc. Of course there is an impact from that history of imperialism. I had two grand uncles that fought in Kenya, and a cousin in NI, so it is not that long ago. All alive and well thankfully, be hugely impacted by the experience.

On the other hand, they were our ancestors and we're not the people doing that today (I know some in Iraq might disagree)

romdowa · 15/12/2021 18:38

Tbh some English people are no better. I'm irish and lived in the UK and the amount of people who called me all sorts just because I was irish was shocking. Myself and my oh , who is English actually moved to Ireland during the summer so our dc could grow up here. My oh loves it here and has never encountered the hate and prejudice that I encountered in the UK and there was no way in hell I was going to subject my dc to that kind of hate.

luinagreine · 15/12/2021 18:38

@LexMitior

I find this all very interesting as I am English, one child, Irish father.

I am basically hoping that things move on without this life limiting shit. But who knows?

I was born in England like the OP, one English, one Irish parent. I have lived here since I was 4 so way back in the 90s and barely got comments then in extremely rural Ireland with my little English accent, never got a single comment all the way through secondary and college or as an adult, I have had 'where are you from' but that is it. I still have a slight English twang, although I consider myself Irish at this point. 4 girls in my dds class of 28 have one or 2 English parents. Nobody cares. Just like they don't care about the kid that has a German parent or a Filipino parent. There might be a bit of ribbing at world cup time but that is it.

From the OPs posts it comes across like she has more issues than being English. There are English people living happily everywhere here, you hear English accents all of the time, no one cares. My own English parent has been here for 30 years(and still has a very English accent so as soon as they talk you know they are English) and lives a happy life just fine and never has anything like the OP is describing.

Georgeskitchen · 15/12/2021 19:23

If the English are such a wicked people why do so.many people wish to live here?

Dontbekatty · 15/12/2021 19:24

Georgeskitchen
If the English are such a wicked people why do so.many people wish to live here?

Exactly

LexMitior · 15/12/2021 20:00

I was thinking more about the comments from logsonlogsoff really - re "the most English thing" etc. And then the comments about "banter", which don't sound all that great.

LexMitior · 15/12/2021 20:02

Maybe a little "nice to the face" but won't tell you what they really think. That's not great either.

luinagreine · 15/12/2021 20:39

@LexMitior

Maybe a little "nice to the face" but won't tell you what they really think. That's not great either.

Ah right. I suppose my friends, family, colleagues, inlaws are probs all talking about me behind my back. After all modern Ireland is a lifetime away as you say

MrsTerryPratchett · 15/12/2021 20:43

@Dontbekatty

Georgeskitchen If the English are such a wicked people why do so.many people wish to live here?

Exactly

There are over 7 billion people in the world. I'd say only a very tiny proportion want to live in the UK.

Liberia and Sudan have many more refugees. Are they clearly much better countries than the UK?

Sceptre86 · 15/12/2021 20:43

She's 73, I'd tell her everytime she says anything anti English that just because she chose a wrong 'un isn't a good enough reason to hate on all the English including you. Say it on repeat everytime till one day she gets it.

LexMitior · 15/12/2021 20:47

@luinagreine - I didn't mean it like that, but I did notice logsonlogsoffs comments, and I didn't like it. It suggests that some people have these kinds of attitudes and would happily put it on the internet. Not a good feeling. I have never heard about this Irish v English welcome comparison before, and it worries me. My child spans both! Are they supposed to pick?

LexMitior · 15/12/2021 20:55

I suppose I will just have to say something like, there will be some people who may have a problem with you because of where you were raised and how you sound. Don't bother with them, and don't let it affect your ideas, because arseholes are free range and not confined to one country.

Still some depressing shit right there, in 2021.

hufflepuffnstuff · 15/12/2021 21:10

I can't understand or excuse that sort of thing. Your mother (and the other parents/spouses who happily insult the country of their spouse's and child's origin/heritage) should be ashamed! She should understand that you might find it uncomfortable, even if she doesn't mean anything against you in particular. I wouldn't try to hide my feelings on the matter. She sounds like she's tough enough to be able to handle a little back-talk.

Every country has its pros and cons. There are some I honestly hold in disdain, but if I ever meet someone from those places, I don't insult their homeland in their presence. It's basic etiquette! Basic "being a decent person".

Original poster

Mufasa1118 · 16/12/2021 12:22

@SunscreenCentral You said this:
"As an Irish woman, living in Ireland, let me tell you now @Mufasa1118 the nation collectively raised an eyebrow when the ever-delightful Priti Patel threatened to "starve the Irish" over a recent-ish Brexit argument.
Laughable, pathetic rhetoric from Patel trying to threaten the 3rd most food secure country on the planet. I think Brexit will work well for us ultimately."

Do you ever think that the media try to blow things up into shock headlines? Shock. That is how they sell papers.

I was in Ireland at the time. I saw the headlines on the papers, which were made to make as much shock value as possible
I saw a headline which was
"PRITI PATEL SAYS TO STARVE ALL THE IRISH"

Then I went and looked at Priti Patel's actual remarks. What she actually said was this: these are her words:

PRITI Patel : (talking about a report saying that Ireland's GDP would go down)

“This paper appears to show the government were well aware Ireland will face significant issues in a no-deal scenario. Why hasn’t this point been pressed home during negotiations? There is still time to go back to Brussels and get a better deal.”

The words starve or food never came out of her mouth.

But "PRITI PATEL SAYS to STARVE ALL THE IRISH" is a headline that will sell newspapers isn't it? The media always sensationalise things

OP posts:

Original poster

Mufasa1118 · 16/12/2021 12:37

I just feel so totally lonely in Ireland. It's hard to live like this. There just feels like hate directed towards me all the time. Everywhere I go.

Even in different groups of friends/really acquaintances in Ireland, people have sneered at me for being English.
I rarely tell anyone new in Ireland that I was born in England, but it's a small town. They will usually know someone that already knows me, and they will tell them that I am English.
I have been abused in school, college and in workplaces in Ireland because I am English.

It's honestly started to get to a point where I feel severely, severely depressed. It's terrible to live in a country where you feel hated.

I need to be in Ireland this year for family reasons. But I think next year I will move to another country. I can't take it anymore. I'm unhappy all the time here.

I wish Id had a different life. Most of my life is gone now , and it has been mostly unhappy because of this

OP posts:

RuggerHug · 16/12/2021 12:40

@tttigress

I've only been to Ireland once, but I was surprised that most of the media seemed to be very closely related to British media, and everyone was interested in premier League teams and other English/British stuff. So it did not seem that different from the UK. This is obviously their choice, as I believe their have been initiatives to reinvigorate Irishness.

I guess in some ways though you hate those that you are closest to.

I honestly can't tell if you're joking tttigress.

Original poster

Mufasa1118 · 16/12/2021 12:42

@ruggerhug a lot of people in Ireland do support English football teams, despite having absolutely no connection with them. That is true!

OP posts:

RuggerHug · 16/12/2021 12:47

Oh I meant the "I was there once and it's not different". OP without wanting to be nosey have you contact/relationship with your English side of your family?

luinagreine · 16/12/2021 12:51

I find your last post really strange to be honest. Like I said I have an English twang, was born in England, moved to Ireland when I was 4 and it is never an issue. I grew up in very rural Ireland, moved to a city for college, now live in a small town. I find it really strange that it would happen repeatedly to you across different settings. Do all of the other English people around you feel the same? Even in my very rural secondary there were 2 other people in my class of 24 that were born in England so I would find it very hard to believe that you are the only English person in the village.

If you are lonely and you find Irish people to be too anti English would you not make friends with other people? In my team of 5 colleagues right now I was born in England, one is Polish and one is Lithuanian, 2 born in Ireland. There are parents from all different nationalities at my dds school, walk around and you hear people from everywhere. Your clearly not a fan of Irish people so why not expand your horizons?

Original poster

Mufasa1118 · 16/12/2021 13:13

@luinagreine yes I know other people that have experienced this too. My uncle, aunt and cousin moved over here to Ireland from England a couple of years ago, my cousin went to school for a year here. He was in 5th year. He was bullied so badly for being English that I remember my uncle having to go in all the time to the school. He was bullied so severely for being English that even though both his parents live in Ireland, it was agreed that my cousin would go back to England and live with an aunty, as he was getting so much abuse here in Ireland.

Also when I was in college in Ireland here, there was one other English girl in my college that I knew of. She told me that when she moved to Ireland as a child, none of the Irish girls in her school would talk to her, and she had no friends at all. That they would make fun of her all the time because she was English

It was the same for me.When I was in secondary school in Ireland the Irish girls would refuse to talk to me and they would make fun of my English surname. So I used to sit with the one other foreign girl in school all through school. She was my only friend.

I'm glad you have had no experiences like this. But alot of us do. See some one else has written on this thread that she has also experienced this in Ireland.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mufasa1118 · 16/12/2021 13:14

@luinagreine just on your point about workplaces. Everyone in my workplace is Irish. There is nothing wrong with that, as this is Ireland. But just to point out that not every workplace in Ireland is diverse with loads of different nationalities in it.
But thanks for your post.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mufasa1118 · 16/12/2021 13:16

@lunagreine how do you do it! How do you not get abuse in Ireland? I would love to hear about this.

Do you tell people that you were born in England or do you not mention it?

OP posts:

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