Regarding "absent" mothers (in this day and age) - especially re. Child Support

[LoveMyPiano]

Still with questions about how things went for my sister (posted previously about the divorce). Her husband had an affair, firstly with my sister's best/only friend (also mother to their daughter's best friend - "conveniently"). This started the first breakdown of the marriage, which was - truth be told - not so great in the first place.

The affair ended and they reconciled, but then another affair started - which my sister was aware of but stayed quiet about, trying to keep family together (issues, like me, with insecurity and abandonment). When after a year, it was brought out into the open, he took their daughter to live with him and his mother (daughter was given a "choice" - she was 11-12 at the time) and my sister had a nervous breakdown, a couple of suicide attempts and retreated almost entirely from society, onto benefits etc. He reclaimed the family home and she moved into a rented house and continued he downward spiral. She saw her daughter, on the terms dictated by her husband, and he divorced her without any financial or custody matters being resolved (this happened after a couple of years - as per the other post I made, with no responses...).

The husband came after her for the Child Benefit less than one week after he took thir daughter - when it was not even clear that the arrangement was anything like agreed or permanent, so it should have been no surprise that when she finally found a job, he came after her for Child Support. He at that time was working in a nicely paid job, the mortgage was low, and a low payment, and his mother (retired) made life a lot eaier for him and daughter, who, as the rleationship with the "OW" progressed, became less happy living with him. He blatantly told my sister that the child support would be paying the OW's mortgage, so she made the payment direct to her daughter's bank account. But, this was short-ish term, as her mental health was still not great and she ended up out of work again and unable to pay, which is how things continued.

I am not really sure about my own thoughts on this, but certainly wish I had known - but she kept everything from her "family" (of origin) and fought this awful battle alone.

I am sure the term "absent mother" might be inflammatory in a lot of ways, but really am looking for input regarding this issue, as I do think that she had a bad time of it, but it may be something that is seen 100% black and white (i.e. absent fathers should pay etc etc).

Any and all thoughts and input would be helpful (she is not on MN).

I'm not sure what you are wanting from this?

If the father had the same issues that the mother had, would anyone blame the mother for taking custody of the child? the father had a nervous breakdown, a couple of suicide attempts and retreated almost entirely from society, onto benefits - left the family home, but still wanted to retain the child benefit even though child was living full time with the mother. Should he pay child support, even though the mother doesnt really need it?. As they are not on good terms, she's told him that the child support is paying for the other mans mortgage, so he is being controlling and paying directly in to the child bank account

No, they wouldnt - so why do you expect it to be different for you sister. Yes, it is shit that it happened, No i would wish it for my friends or family

I’m not legally trained so I’ll put that out there now.

It sounds like your sister has had a tough time however also like she buried her head in the sand and let this happen.

The time to sort financial matters related to divorce is before the decree absolute- although I find your account a bit confusing it sounds like it wasn’t until some time after the divorce that this all came to court and some pretty big moves of assets had already taken place making this more difficult. I take it she wasn’t on the deeds to the house and the house sale went through after the divorce- so because it was left too late she had lost her claim on the marital asset.

The daughter expressed a preference to be with dad but it sounds like your sister never fought for a custody arrangement and let this relationship deteriorate.

The husbands infidelity makes him shitty but doesn’t change the financial or custody arrangements.

Why shouldn’t he get the child benefit and pursue her for maintenance? I don’t understand.

Not really clear what you are asking but
..

Yes it sounds like she has had a rough time.
Yes the absent parent should pay child maintenance, whether the mother or the father.

Her actions were a consequence of what he did, not a cause (as far as I know). He would not have got away with it with someone less fragile in the first place.

I am "only" looking to brainstorm it with other people, and hear views (and expect a lot of them to be, "Well, if it was a man...") as the damage cannot be undone, but I am only just being told about it.

But I do NOT agree that the money demanded as Child Support be used for someone else's mortgage, nor was it "controlling" - of anything other than her daughter guaranteed to receive it [age 12] - to pay it directly to her.

She has an obligation to pay maintenance to her child’s other parent. What he chose to do with that money once he received it is up to him.

The child wanted to live with her father
The father has a good job and a settled home and no mental health issues you mention

Child support from your sister is correct

You don’t understand child maintenance do you?

I receive
It doesn’t go for anything specific
It’s to contribute to my children’s world - and that include me home, food, clothes, activities etc

Her response to her child wanting to live with her father was multiple suicide attempts and to retreat from society

The child is in the right place

The non resident parent should pay maintenance. And they have no say on how it is used. Paying it directly to the child is completely out of order.

@Joban

I’m not legally trained so I’ll put that out there now.

It sounds like your sister has had a tough time however also like she buried her head in the sand and let this happen.

The time to sort financial matters related to divorce is before the decree absolute- although I find your account a bit confusing it sounds like it wasn’t until some time after the divorce that this all came to court and some pretty big moves of assets had already taken place making this more difficult. I take it she wasn’t on the deeds to the house and the house sale went through after the divorce- so because it was left too late she had lost her claim on the marital asset.

The daughter expressed a preference to be with dad but it sounds like your sister never fought for a custody arrangement and let this relationship deteriorate.

The husbands infidelity makes him shitty but doesn’t change the financial or custody arrangements.

As I understand it - the divorce was "allowed" to go though withOUT anything being resolved. I didn't think that was possible...... The house WAS jointly owned, so again, I don't see how any of those things were allowed to linger on.

She says she didn't want to fight against what the daughter wanted, even though when she said to her dad that she wanted to go to live with her mum, he said, "You will NEVER see me again if you do" (and within that he included the extended family she had grown up with, and the fact that he was planning to marry the OW#2 and take on her two daughters, one of whom was the same age as his own daughter).

I do believe that people's personal financial circumastances SHOULD be taken into account though - why not? She had nothing/to give. And being on benefits came back to bite her when the Ancillary Matters WERE finaly discussed long after the divorce had been finalised.

I’ve just caught up with you precious thread re your sister

The child is now is university and still doesn’t want to live with her mother

Sorry but you seem to be absolving her of any responsibility for her own actions.
Sounds rough and like she was fragile- but she didn’t employ any legal representation, or ask for any help.

This ‘paying the OW mortgage’ thing is a red herring- it doesn’t matter if he was or not, presumably he was feeding and clothing the child and that’s what the money was for!

CMS will calculate the amount that the non resident parent should pay.

The reason for the one parent not having shared care is immaterial.

If she is on a very low income then the amount she has tonpay will be very low.

What the resident parent chooses to spend the maintenance on is again immaterial and none of her business.

Do it all officially through cms

* I do believe that people's personal financial circumastances SHOULD be taken into account though - why not? She had nothing/to give.*

Ffs it is
Some RPs get £5 a week. It’s all over mumsnet about mother’s usually getting ridiculous sums because ex on benefits or self employed and fiddling their income

The daughter is an adult?

@Happy1982ish

You don’t understand child maintenance do you?

I receive
It doesn’t go for anything specific
It’s to contribute to my children’s world - and that include me home, food, clothes, activities etc

I suppose I don't. Maybe I'm too inexperienced, and of course, biased towards my sister (even though we have been estranged); but I find it awful that she would be expected to pay the mortgage of someone who helped to destroy a marrriage and family and screw up a child's life.

Going directly to the child DID contribute to her world, I would say. By that time, he was sidelining her for the OW's daughters.

In actual fact, he DID leave the daughter after a little while, to live with his own mother --- who, then, should have been going after he Child Support? (At least it would not have been paying the mortgage or going to the well-paid husband in that case - even if the ex-MIL was by then living in the former matrimonial home).

All very messy, I am sorry to say.

You clearly know bugger all about CMS or how how divorce financial settlements operate (this went to court as per previous thread, so a judge has examined the case and yet still you think you know better)

I suspect that you aren’t helping you’re very fragile sister in any sense. Just fanning flames.

Thank goodness the child lived with her father and granny and now is at university and doesn’t wish to have a relationship with her mother

Well her financial status was taken into consideration- CM I’d proportional to income.
You have only her word that she wasn’t granted financial assistance later on in court due to being on benefits- this sounds vanishingly unlikely and that the real problem was this all came to take place many many years following separation.

If she was on house deeds she would have had to consent to house sale unless you are stating ex husband committed fraud or forgery!?

It feels like you have one garbled half of a very complex story. Obviously your loyalty and sympathies are with your sister, however my sympathy goes to the daughter caught in the middle of this.

I find it incredibly feeling that she wants no contact with her mum now.

She behaved badly by not paying direct to the other parent and paying the amount required of someone on benefits.

You and this mortgage!

Woman obsessed

It’s laughable

It sounds like she opted out of being a partner emotionally and physically, that doesn't absolve her financially though. It happens with Dads all the time they opt out after a relationship break down and don't fight for a relationship with their child. I don't see why it shouldn't be the other way around? He does sound emotionally abusive and like a shit partner, but neither parent comes out well from this and child benefit has to be changed over very quickly (within 4 weeks) of a child's primary residence changing. It can be changed back quickly too! I do feel sorry for your sister in this, it sounds like she was very isolated, broken by the relationship and destroyed by her child choosing to live with her dad, but equally you don't get to opt out of being a parent and if you do opt out in many ways, you can't be Angry with the other parent for opting in. IMO parents shouldn't be able to opt out financially, male or female. It doesn't mean that it isn't complicated as to why that happens in the majority of cases, and deeply sad especially for the child involved, however. I hope your sister can find a way to forgive herself and her ex for the past, and move on to have a happier future hopefully with her daughter in it. Quibbling over small change maintenance amounts seems like she is not in the mindset to be able to heal that rift, however.

‘ she would be expected to pay the mortgage of someone who helped to destroy a marrriage and family and screw up a child's life.’

I imagine the CM she paid whilst on benefits would have been a drop in the ocean compared to the costs of a mortgage or indeed the costs to look after the child.

The OW is immaterial.

The people responsible for screwing up the child are the mother and the father!

@Happy1982ish

I’ve just caught up with you precious thread re your sister

The child is now is university and still doesn’t want to live with her mother

Good, that saves more explaining..... She is fully independent now, "doesn't want" does not come into it. But the relationship was damaged, by all parties. And, I am ashamed to admit, by my sister's lack of support from her own "family".

Opted out of being a parent not partner stupid autocorrect sorry!