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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Regarding "absent" mothers (in this day and age) - especially re. Child Support

199 replies

LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 11:46

Still with questions about how things went for my sister (posted previously about the divorce). Her husband had an affair, firstly with my sister's best/only friend (also mother to their daughter's best friend - "conveniently"). This started the first breakdown of the marriage, which was - truth be told - not so great in the first place.

The affair ended and they reconciled, but then another affair started - which my sister was aware of but stayed quiet about, trying to keep family together (issues, like me, with insecurity and abandonment). When after a year, it was brought out into the open, he took their daughter to live with him and his mother (daughter was given a "choice" - she was 11-12 at the time) and my sister had a nervous breakdown, a couple of suicide attempts and retreated almost entirely from society, onto benefits etc. He reclaimed the family home and she moved into a rented house and continued he downward spiral. She saw her daughter, on the terms dictated by her husband, and he divorced her without any financial or custody matters being resolved (this happened after a couple of years - as per the other post I made, with no responses...).

The husband came after her for the Child Benefit less than one week after he took thir daughter - when it was not even clear that the arrangement was anything like agreed or permanent, so it should have been no surprise that when she finally found a job, he came after her for Child Support. He at that time was working in a nicely paid job, the mortgage was low, and a low payment, and his mother (retired) made life a lot eaier for him and daughter, who, as the rleationship with the "OW" progressed, became less happy living with him. He blatantly told my sister that the child support would be paying the OW's mortgage, so she made the payment direct to her daughter's bank account. But, this was short-ish term, as her mental health was still not great and she ended up out of work again and unable to pay, which is how things continued.

I am not really sure about my own thoughts on this, but certainly wish I had known - but she kept everything from her "family" (of origin) and fought this awful battle alone.

I am sure the term "absent mother" might be inflammatory in a lot of ways, but really am looking for input regarding this issue, as I do think that she had a bad time of it, but it may be something that is seen 100% black and white (i.e. absent fathers should pay etc etc).

Any and all thoughts and input would be helpful (she is not on MN).

OP posts:
CloudyStorms · 05/12/2021 12:54

it is extremely controlling to pay the money in to the childs bank account agreed. It also puts pressure on the child to then give it to their parent

Original poster
LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 12:55

@Duxiejhrhrvjz

If your sister paid into an account for her daughter and not to the other parent then she isn’t paying child support. That isn’t supporting the child’s every day expenses. CMS would not have allowed this. It is her being controlling and bitter. If your sister paying the child’s father some of the expenses he pays out for their daughter, means that he has more spare money so that he and his current partner can afford to keep two properties that’s a very good financial move for them. More stability for all children if they separate in the future etc. You should be very happy that your niece has been able to grow up in a stable home instead of with her mother who would have traumatised her.
She was left with his mother after a cople of yeras, only marginally better than staying with her father, who would have pushed her to the periphery. He never paid another bean towards her life.

My sister may NOT have been so unstable if her daughter had not been taken from her (yes, she - dauhter - was given a "choice" - actually, simply asked about what she would want to do "if...?" - huband latched onto that like a guided missile) and she had had more support. But yes, I am "happy" that she has overcome what the adults around her did (or didn't do).

OP posts:
Skyll · 05/12/2021 12:56

Why are you so bothered about this now? It’s history.

Original poster
LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 12:57

@Dishwashersaurous

Of course it's not crazy.

The resident parent has to decide how to spend their income to support themselves and their children. Housing, food etc.

Their income consists of wages, benefits in some circumstances , pension if elderly, child maintenance and any other income.

Then they use all their income to meet their needs.

In most cases a parent on benefits will pay a flat rate of £7 a week.

Therefore the £28 a month she would be required to pay would go into the non resident parent pot.

£28 a month is not going to cover very many bills at all obviously

When she was first paying it, it was about £150 per month, due to her being in ft employment. Just about the mortgage payment at that time, apparently.
OP posts:
Waxonwaxoff0 · 05/12/2021 12:58

He can spend the maintenance on whatever he sees fit.

I receive child maintenance from my ex husband, it goes into my bank account and it gets spent along with my own wages on whatever I buy that month. I do not break it down so it goes only on stuff specifically for DS.

It's sad what happened to your sister but if she wasn't in a fit state to have custody of her child then that's the way it is.

Dishwashersaurous · 05/12/2021 12:58

I really think that you need to focus on supporting your niece now and helping her transition to adulthood. As she sounds like she could do with adult support.

You raking over history is not in any way going to help her

CPL593H · 05/12/2021 12:59

Does your niece have a relationship with her father now? She's the one I feel sorry for in all this.

Your sister really does need to move on in as positive a way as possible and frankly, worrying the bones of what happened a decade ago will not help her to do so.

Original poster
LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 12:59

@Skyll

Why are you so bothered about this now? It’s history.
Why does it matter to you at all then?

It is new and news to me, sadly. I am learning a lot (and about human nature surrounding this issue), and am trying to help my sister, without inadvertently making matters worse.

OP posts:
Skyll · 05/12/2021 13:00

Help your sister in the here and now. Not by railing at the law. She behaved poorly (for whatever reason) but that is done now.

Aimee1987 · 05/12/2021 13:02

My DPs ex cheated on him and took their son. She claimed child benifit from day she left
She didnt want to give DP much visitation at all and he only got it after threatening to take her to court. He was also left with alot of debt from their marriage.
By your reasoning should he not pay maintenance?
Also logistically how do CMS calculate child maintenance based the terms of the end of the marriage. If a women cheats does a man never have to pay maintence?

WonderfulYou · 05/12/2021 13:04

The man was completely in the wrong for having an affair.
However it sounds like your sisters MH meant that the child would have been better with the father. And which ever parent gets custody should also try and stay in the family home and receive money from the parent that doesn’t live with them. It’s not fair that the child misses out because the other parent feels that they’ve been treated unfairly.

I know a women in a similar situation. The dad stayed in the family home with the children and she has them EOW and pays maintenance.

Augo · 05/12/2021 13:04

It is new and news to me, sadly. I am learning a lot (and about human nature surrounding this issue)
Are you hearing about this from all parties or just your sister?
She needed to pay cms, the child is an adult now, it's not going to help her rehashing over this when it was years ago.

Original poster
LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 13:04

@Skyll

Help your sister in the here and now. Not by railing at the law. She behaved poorly (for whatever reason) but that is done now.
"Poorly" - really.....? I am hardly railing at the law either. I am seeing it from a personal and "what would I do?" perspective. Legal it may have been, immoral is something else.
OP posts:
Aimee1987 · 05/12/2021 13:05

I would say you need to support your sister. If shes had multiple breakdowns is she getting the help she needs. Her feelings around this need to be talked through in councelling.
It sounds tough but it doesnt sound like she was in a stable space to take care of a teenager at the time so mabey being with dad was best.

Happy1982ish · 05/12/2021 13:05

Op

You don’t know enough about CMS to offer practical advice
You were estranged from your sister during these years so you’re only catching up now

I suggest that what you CAN offer your sister is to say to put it to peace now that her daughter is at university and instead focus on trying to help her carve out a relationship with her daughter.

You festering about the past on the little you know is not helping her

Skyll · 05/12/2021 13:06

She did behave poorly.

There are reasons behind that but she did behave poorly.

The law does not slow her to control what happens to child maintenance that she has an obligation to pay.

Comedycook · 05/12/2021 13:06

As unpleasant as affairs are, I don't see what they have to do with financial arrangements for the child. The NRP needs to pay CM to the RP.

Bloodypunkrockers · 05/12/2021 13:07

Interesting use of language around CMS
"Come after her for it"
"Demanding"

It sounds like you don't think she should be paying and he was being unreasonable in asking for what was legally and morally expected

Chocolatewheatos · 05/12/2021 13:07

I think if this was the other way around you'd feel completely differently.
When an ex husband attempts suicide he isn't considered a victim of his ex wife, he's controlling and manipulative etc
Of course the father should have had the child benefit when he was sole carer, and of course she should have paid child support.
Of course it's sad she was so mentally ill that she felt the need to attempt suicide but that also shows the child was clearly better off with the father who was stable and employed.

Original poster
LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 13:07

@WonderfulYou

The man was completely in the wrong for having an affair. However it sounds like your sisters MH meant that the child would have been better with the father. And which ever parent gets custody should also try and stay in the family home and receive money from the parent that doesn’t live with them. It’s not fair that the child misses out because the other parent feels that they’ve been treated unfairly.

I know a women in a similar situation. The dad stayed in the family home with the children and she has them EOW and pays maintenance.

Again - the mental decline was BECAUSE he took their daughter and tricked her into leaving the house (twice), not the REASON.

By the time matters went to Court, it was used as an EXCUSE, because it was convenient and things had been allowed (by ex-husband by that point) to drag on, so she was evidently in not great shape.

OP posts:
Skyll · 05/12/2021 13:08

So what?

That’s all done.

Your sister can explore those feelings in counselling but I guarantee you’re not getting the full story.

dizzygirl1 · 05/12/2021 13:12

Op you were astranged from your sister at the time (from what you've said)
You don't know what actually happened. You only know what your sister is remembering 9 years on... as always there are 3 sides to a story 'hers', 'his' and 'the truth'.
What your sister is remembering as the full reasons for her MH decline might not be the full reason.
I'd suggest if she talks about it now, just try to bring her back to here and now - things she can change and do now. Rather than concentrate on the past, it's not helping

Original poster
LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 13:14

@Chocolatewheatos

I think if this was the other way around you'd feel completely differently. When an ex husband attempts suicide he isn't considered a victim of his ex wife, he's controlling and manipulative etc Of course the father should have had the child benefit when he was sole carer, and of course she should have paid child support. Of course it's sad she was so mentally ill that she felt the need to attempt suicide but that also shows the child was clearly better off with the father who was stable and employed.
That's how things are seen NOWadays, when men and women are not even SEEN as separate entities, whose behaviour might be different even in the same or a similar set of circumstances.

His reasons for taking the daughter were flimsy and manipulative; I don't blame my sister for how she handled it, and I DO think that money cannot be a separate issue. But fo some people, that is the ONLY thing that matters.

Being employed and "stable" is only the lesser of two evils in this case.

OP posts:
threebillboards · 05/12/2021 13:15

Your niece is in the right place and your sister needs help with her mental health. Your support for her and pointers to the right agency, is probably all you can do.
If she gets a job and pays child support it is irrelevant what it is spent on. Paying the money to the child who is underage is not the right thing to do and puts her in an awkward position. Your sister is trying to control a situation she could not cope with. Only the people involved understand what went wrong with the marriage and sadly, your sister sounds hard work. No reason of course to have an affair, but marriages break down all the time. Your sister needs to concentrate on her own recovery and try to build a relationship with her daughter without being resentful of the life her ex H is having.

icedcoffees · 05/12/2021 13:18

Your sister wasn't fit to have custody of her daughter - that much is obvious. She was also legally obliged to pay maintenance directly to her ex and, for some unknown reason, she chose not to do that.

She may have had mental health struggles, but that's not an excuse to neglect your responsibilities as a parent. If she wasn't capable of physically being there, the very least she could do is contribute financially and she didn't even do that. She had no right to give her maintenance directly to her daughter - that's shitty behaviour.

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