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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Regarding "absent" mothers (in this day and age) - especially re. Child Support

199 replies

LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 11:46

Still with questions about how things went for my sister (posted previously about the divorce). Her husband had an affair, firstly with my sister's best/only friend (also mother to their daughter's best friend - "conveniently"). This started the first breakdown of the marriage, which was - truth be told - not so great in the first place.

The affair ended and they reconciled, but then another affair started - which my sister was aware of but stayed quiet about, trying to keep family together (issues, like me, with insecurity and abandonment). When after a year, it was brought out into the open, he took their daughter to live with him and his mother (daughter was given a "choice" - she was 11-12 at the time) and my sister had a nervous breakdown, a couple of suicide attempts and retreated almost entirely from society, onto benefits etc. He reclaimed the family home and she moved into a rented house and continued he downward spiral. She saw her daughter, on the terms dictated by her husband, and he divorced her without any financial or custody matters being resolved (this happened after a couple of years - as per the other post I made, with no responses...).

The husband came after her for the Child Benefit less than one week after he took thir daughter - when it was not even clear that the arrangement was anything like agreed or permanent, so it should have been no surprise that when she finally found a job, he came after her for Child Support. He at that time was working in a nicely paid job, the mortgage was low, and a low payment, and his mother (retired) made life a lot eaier for him and daughter, who, as the rleationship with the "OW" progressed, became less happy living with him. He blatantly told my sister that the child support would be paying the OW's mortgage, so she made the payment direct to her daughter's bank account. But, this was short-ish term, as her mental health was still not great and she ended up out of work again and unable to pay, which is how things continued.

I am not really sure about my own thoughts on this, but certainly wish I had known - but she kept everything from her "family" (of origin) and fought this awful battle alone.

I am sure the term "absent mother" might be inflammatory in a lot of ways, but really am looking for input regarding this issue, as I do think that she had a bad time of it, but it may be something that is seen 100% black and white (i.e. absent fathers should pay etc etc).

Any and all thoughts and input would be helpful (she is not on MN).

OP posts:
dizzygirl1 · 05/12/2021 12:27

Child maintenance is to support the child in all ways....eg... housing (mortgage!), gas, electric, clothes, food, water, sports etc. It's not pocket money for the child...
I say this as a stepparent who paid for years and as parent who's separated so I've been BOTH sides.
The issue isn't about your sister being absent but the ridiculous assumption that child maintenance isn't for a mortgage of a house which she lives in and keeps her warm.

Motnight · 05/12/2021 12:28

Op why are you so obsessed with this at least 9 years after it happened??

Skyll · 05/12/2021 12:30

Why do you care? This is historic

Kippersfortea · 05/12/2021 12:30

The other woman stuff is irrelevant. She (and you) need to let that go. Shit happens, things got messy, you weren't there for your sister and she wasn't there for her child. Draw a line under it, forgive what you can let go of the rest. Life is short and you can only make it better once you make a decision to start with where you are right now. Nobody can change the past. If you feel guilty for not being there for your sister and niece it's time to step up right now. Nobody can change the past, nobody can predict the future. We only have control over our actions right now. Are you going back l reach out with love or disconnect with resentment? The choice is yours

Dishwashersaurous · 05/12/2021 12:32

If the child is st University doesn't all child maintenance stop? Why would she be paying anything now?

LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 12:33

@Happy1982ish

You clearly know bugger all about CMS or how how divorce financial settlements operate (this went to court as per previous thread, so a judge has examined the case and yet still you think you know better)

I suspect that you aren’t helping you’re very fragile sister in any sense. Just fanning flames.

Thank goodness the child lived with her father and granny and now is at university and doesn’t wish to have a relationship with her mother

I admit I don't , and am "happy" to be educated - even by some of the nastier (IMO) remarks I am hearing. What I am doing is listening to her story - if I am "fanning flames", it is unintentional. In fact, I am trying to take care not to. MN is not place she would ever venture, and I am not likley to repeat what I am reading, so she will not be further hurt by this.

Knowing the father and the (now dead) "granny", I would say that it was Hobson's choice for the child. He definitely used her as a weapon against my sister; she refused to let her be used as a rope in a tug-of-war. He didn't really want her, as proved by him leaving her with his own mother and buggering off.

OP posts:
Skyll · 05/12/2021 12:34

The child is an adult. If she wants to reconnect with your sister she can do

Dishwashersaurous · 05/12/2021 12:36

A really quick Google would show you the CMs rules

www.gov.uk/calculate-child-maintenance

vivainsomnia · 05/12/2021 12:39

If he paid for everything for his daughter and therefore couldn't pay any contribution for rent, IE. Girlfriend's mortgage, then you could say that it was reasonable the maintenance went towards it.

It's all semantic. If he agreed then that she could pay directly into his daughters account, then he clearly wasn't after her money. He could have gone to CMS and made her paid it to him.

You are definitely biased. In the end, the girl chose to live with her dad. It hurts, but many dads are hurt the sane way. It doesn't take away ones responsibity as a parent.

LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 12:39

@dizzygirl1

Child maintenance is to support the child in all ways....eg... housing (mortgage!), gas, electric, clothes, food, water, sports etc. It's not pocket money for the child... I say this as a stepparent who paid for years and as parent who's separated so I've been BOTH sides. The issue isn't about your sister being absent but the ridiculous assumption that child maintenance isn't for a mortgage of a house which she lives in and keeps her warm.
She would not have been living in the house the money was used to pay the mortgage "of". At that time, the hsuband was not yet living with the OW - but had made it clear that Child Support he demanded was to pay HER mortgage on the house that she and her two daughters were living in, her own husband having moved out when he dicsovered the affair (he was also a friend/colleague of my sister's husband). HE stopped paying THEIR mortgage.

Hence, payment direct to daughter. Makes sense to me.
The husband had form - wanted to borrow money from my sister (his wife at the time) to take OW out on Valentine's Night (before the afffair was overt). Very well paid, but bad with money.

OP posts:
Duxiejhrhrvjz · 05/12/2021 12:42

If your sister paid into an account for her daughter and not to the other parent then she isn’t paying child support. That isn’t supporting the child’s every day expenses. CMS would not have allowed this. It is her being controlling and bitter.
If your sister paying the child’s father some of the expenses he pays out for their daughter, means that he has more spare money so that he and his current partner can afford to keep two properties that’s a very good financial move for them. More stability for all children if they separate in the future etc.
You should be very happy that your niece has been able to grow up in a stable home instead of with her mother who would have traumatised her.

LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 12:42

@vivainsomnia

If he paid for everything for his daughter and therefore couldn't pay any contribution for rent, IE. Girlfriend's mortgage, then you could say that it was reasonable the maintenance went towards it.

It's all semantic. If he agreed then that she could pay directly into his daughters account, then he clearly wasn't after her money. He could have gone to CMS and made her paid it to him.

You are definitely biased. In the end, the girl chose to live with her dad. It hurts, but many dads are hurt the sane way. It doesn't take away ones responsibity as a parent.

He wanted to pay his girlfriend's mortgage withOUT living there (because her husband had stopped?) - still in the former marimonial home at that point. Not for long admittedly, as he fairly quickly left his daughter behind to go and live there.

I am biased. The man was a dick.

OP posts:
Dishwashersaurous · 05/12/2021 12:44

It doesn't matter how the resident parent chooses to spend the money. If he wants to support someone else mortgage he can.

The child maintenance goes into the pot of money the resident parent has to spend how they wish.

The important thing for you to think about is why you are so obsessed by this situation. Whilst clearly historic

BonesInTheOcean · 05/12/2021 12:44

@LoveMyPiano

Her actions were a consequence of what he did, not a cause (as far as I know). He would not have got away with it with someone less fragile in the first place.

I am "only" looking to brainstorm it with other people, and hear views (and expect a lot of them to be, "Well, if it was a man...") as the damage cannot be undone, but I am only just being told about it.

But I do NOT agree that the money demanded as Child Support be used for someone else's mortgage, nor was it "controlling" - of anything other than her daughter guaranteed to receive it [age 12] - to pay it directly to her.

But I do NOT agree that the money demanded as Child Support be used for someone else's mortgage, nor was it "controlling" - of anything other than her daughter guaranteed to receive it [age 12] - to pay it directly to her.

of course thats bloody controlling, child maintenance is to support the childs LIVING EXPENSES - thats means food, bills etc. IF a man this, he would rightly be lynched here

Kippersfortea · 05/12/2021 12:44

She doesn't get to decide where or who to pay it to, though, or what he spends it on. It sounds like he said something to be spiteful/malicious and behaved badly. The response to that is to pay the maintenance at the right amount to the right person, not to reduce the amount and pay it to the wrong account. Then they are both playing games and nobody comes out of it well do they?

LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 12:44

@Skyll

Why do you care? This is historic
Because it is only now all coming out. And what has happened historically can have a bearing on the present, and future. As this case proves.

Thanks for your input though..... Smile

OP posts:
Dishwashersaurous · 05/12/2021 12:46

But why is there any bearing on the current reality? If the child is at university then child maintenance doesn't apply.

People are trying to help but what outcome do you want to achieve

LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 12:47

@Dishwashersaurous

It doesn't matter how the resident parent chooses to spend the money. If he wants to support someone else mortgage he can.

The child maintenance goes into the pot of money the resident parent has to spend how they wish.

The important thing for you to think about is why you are so obsessed by this situation. Whilst clearly historic

That's crazy. And I would never do or expect that myself, so have learnt something already, as perverse as it is.

I am not sure why you say "obsessed" (and see another reply from me regarding whether or not something "historic" is worth discussing)?

OP posts:
Skyll · 05/12/2021 12:49

He could do what he likes with HIS money.

An NRP has zero right to dictate what the RP does with any maintenance. That’s the law. Your opinion is irrelevant.

LoveMyPiano · 05/12/2021 12:49

@Dishwashersaurous

But why is there any bearing on the current reality? If the child is at university then child maintenance doesn't apply.

People are trying to help but what outcome do you want to achieve

"Trying to help" you say Hmm The opinions are not what I expected.
OP posts:
CloudyStorms · 05/12/2021 12:49

The money he was given went into his bank account, what he does with it then is up to him. You need to get over it.

BonesInTheOcean · 05/12/2021 12:51

so for example
his wage is £500
CM is £50

he has £550 to make payments for this that and the other.

the 50 from cm is just in the 550 overall....

and yes it is extremely controlling to pay the money in to the childs bank account

MadeOfStarStuff · 05/12/2021 12:51

Of course absent parents should pay, and it is controlling and manipulative to pay it directly to the child. What the resident parent spends the money on is irrelevant. Children don’t pay for their own living costs, it falls to the resident parent, which is why the money is paid to the parent not the child.

And of course the resident parent is the one entitled to claim child benefit. They’re the one with the cost of raising the child.

Your sister doesn’t seem to have fought for custody. Appreciate it may have been due to her mental state at the time but surely you can see how that would feel for her child and how it looks to outsiders.

You’re awfully invested in this considering you weren’t aware of it at the time and didn’t help your sister.

dizzygirl1 · 05/12/2021 12:53

@LoveMyPiano you completely miss the point... unless people agree with you you are ignoring them.
Your sister was wrong, she shouldn't have been paying it into the child's account.
The child chose where she wanted to be, and your sister should have paid child maintenance to the resident parent.
Give up, acknowledge you and your sister have no clue and forget what's years old. If your niece doesn't want a relationship with her mother there is probably a reason.

Dishwashersaurous · 05/12/2021 12:53

Of course it's not crazy.

The resident parent has to decide how to spend their income to support themselves and their children. Housing, food etc.

Their income consists of wages, benefits in some circumstances , pension if elderly, child maintenance and any other income.

Then they use all their income to meet their needs.

In most cases a parent on benefits will pay a flat rate of £7 a week.

Therefore the £28 a month she would be required to pay would go into the non resident parent pot.

£28 a month is not going to cover very many bills at all obviously

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