Regarding "absent" mothers (in this day and age) - especially re. Child Support

[LoveMyPiano]

Still with questions about how things went for my sister (posted previously about the divorce). Her husband had an affair, firstly with my sister's best/only friend (also mother to their daughter's best friend - "conveniently"). This started the first breakdown of the marriage, which was - truth be told - not so great in the first place.

The affair ended and they reconciled, but then another affair started - which my sister was aware of but stayed quiet about, trying to keep family together (issues, like me, with insecurity and abandonment). When after a year, it was brought out into the open, he took their daughter to live with him and his mother (daughter was given a "choice" - she was 11-12 at the time) and my sister had a nervous breakdown, a couple of suicide attempts and retreated almost entirely from society, onto benefits etc. He reclaimed the family home and she moved into a rented house and continued he downward spiral. She saw her daughter, on the terms dictated by her husband, and he divorced her without any financial or custody matters being resolved (this happened after a couple of years - as per the other post I made, with no responses...).

The husband came after her for the Child Benefit less than one week after he took thir daughter - when it was not even clear that the arrangement was anything like agreed or permanent, so it should have been no surprise that when she finally found a job, he came after her for Child Support. He at that time was working in a nicely paid job, the mortgage was low, and a low payment, and his mother (retired) made life a lot eaier for him and daughter, who, as the rleationship with the "OW" progressed, became less happy living with him. He blatantly told my sister that the child support would be paying the OW's mortgage, so she made the payment direct to her daughter's bank account. But, this was short-ish term, as her mental health was still not great and she ended up out of work again and unable to pay, which is how things continued.

I am not really sure about my own thoughts on this, but certainly wish I had known - but she kept everything from her "family" (of origin) and fought this awful battle alone.

I am sure the term "absent mother" might be inflammatory in a lot of ways, but really am looking for input regarding this issue, as I do think that she had a bad time of it, but it may be something that is seen 100% black and white (i.e. absent fathers should pay etc etc).

Any and all thoughts and input would be helpful (she is not on MN).

As I understand it - the divorce was "allowed" to go though withOUT anything being resolved. I didn't think that was possible...... The house WAS jointly owned, so again, I don't see how any of those things were allowed to linger on.
Did your sister have any legal representation?
Was her MH too bad at that time for her to properly address sticking up for her legal & financial rights?
Because from here, it looks like her cheating ex-H shafted her.

She says she didn't want to fight against what the daughter wanted, even though when she said to her dad that she wanted to go to live with her mum, he said, "You will NEVER see me again if you do" (and within that he included the extended family she had grown up with, and the fact that he was planning to marry the OW#2 and take on her two daughters, one of whom was the same age as his own daughter).
Cheating, financially exploitative, manipulative & guilty of parental alienation.

Your sister has been treated very badly OP.
Ignore the PP who are just highlighting their reluctance to read even the initial post properly, & are knee-jerk reacting to "absent mother" as per the title.

And also you say Because it is only now all coming out. And what has happened historically can have a bearing on the present, and future. As this case proves.

Are you in contact with your ex BIL and has he opened up and told you his side of everything?

If not, then it's not all coming out at all.

But from the dad’s perspective: he has heard his child say that she would rather live with him, not mum. So he acts on that, thinking it’s in niece’s best interests.
If your sister disagreed, she should have made an application to Court.
She didn’t do that. She just let it happen.
What do you think should have happened, @LoveMyPiano ?

Again he didn't take the daughter with Court consent!! A conversation had taken place about (hypothetically) who she would, if given a say, choose to live with. Husband heard about it, and acted on it, without anyone's permission...

We know that. It still doesn't matter. He had every right to have his daughter come to live with him. Your sister (or you?) could have fought this through the court if she'd wanted to.

My sister and their daughter were living together at that time. He had said he would withdraw himself and all his side of extended family.
And yes, the "same" happened on the mother's side. It is now of course "convenient" that it caused her to suffer mentally (and physically, and financially), so a dim view can be taken in the rear view mirror on here and also in the eyes of the Court when it got there.

None of this makes any sense. Your sisters MH issues meant she couldn't have residency of her daughter. The reasons leading upto that are largely irrelevant. She didn't have residency, didn't pay maintenance and didn't go to court to fight the issue. If a man came on here and said he didn't fight for his kids or pay maintenance, he would have his arse handed to him on a plate for being a deadbeat parent.

Very easy to blame the marriage failing on her background

You weren't there so you don't know whether that contributed or not.

I think you need to let this go now. If the child is now at University it doesn't matter who was right or who was wrong. There's nothing you need to understand at all you can't change what's happened - what do you want to get out of this?

Again he didn't take the daughter with Court consent!! A conversation had taken place about (hypothetically) who she would, if given a say, choose to live with. Husband heard about it, and acted on it, without anyone's permission...

We know that. It still doesn't matter. He had every right to have his daughter come to live with him. Your sister (or you?) could have fought this through the court if she'd wanted to.

My sister and their daughter were living together at that time. He had said he would withdraw himself and all his side of extended family. And yes, the "same" happened on the mother's side. It is now of course "convenient" that it caused her to suffer mentally (and physically, and financially), so a dim view can be taken in the rear view mirror on here and also in the eyes of the Court when it got there.

None of this makes any sense. Your sisters MH issues meant she couldn't have residency of her daughter. The reasons leading upto that are largely irrelevant. She didn't have residency, didn't pay maintenance and didn't go to court to fight the issue. If a man came on here and said he didn't fight for his kids or pay maintenance, he would have his arse handed to him on a plate for being a deadbeat parent.

Very easy to blame the marriage failing on her background

You weren't there so you don't know whether that contributed or not.

Sounds like shes had a tough time of it . As you say .I have no first hand experience of Divorce (Thankfully) .However the Courts have to consider the welfare of the child as the focal point .MH is tough on DC.And they presumably felt living with their Mum at that point, was not in the childs best interests.Its a moot point whether MH was caused by ongoing issues from childhood ,or by her husband .He has looked after his child ,and brought her up to be able to have a University education .As above PP said ,would her daughter be interested in seeing her Mum now? Having an Adult RL would be healing .There are no winners in these situations .Many men have felt badly done by in the past ,but it still seems unfair that women would have to pay for a non resident child somehow .

Child support should never be paid in to a child's bank account - your sister should have paid it to her Ex. It's up to him what it gets spent on.

A 12 year old should not have been brought in to the parents tit-for-tat nonsense.

Sounds like her Ex was trying to annoy her when he said it was going towards OW's mortgage.

If this was all years ago, why are you worrying about this now?

Child support should never be paid in to a child's bank account - your sister should have paid it to her Ex. It's up to him what it gets spent on.

Exactly. It's called 'child support', not 'extra pocket money'.

Sorry OP I think your sister is having you on.
It's sounds like she's in the wrong here.

@Kimonolady

But from the dad’s perspective: he has heard his child say that she would rather live with him, not mum. So he acts on that, thinking it’s in niece’s best interests. If your sister disagreed, she should have made an application to Court. She didn’t do that. She just let it happen. What do you think should have happened, *@LoveMyPiano* ?

Not true, Kimono.

He told the child that if she failed to choose him, she would never see him, or her extended family through him again.

So DN decided to live with her dad, then when he moved in with his new wife and her daughters, she didn’t want to move in too and he did anyway?
DN still preferring to live with her Granny and not your sister though?

Both parents sounds really bad here actually on this front.

@Pinkspecs

Sorry OP I think your sister is having you on. It's sounds like she's in the wrong here.

She isn't "having me on", and from what I know, I do not believe her to be in the wrong.

She's not Myra Bloody Hyndley.

Morally, it's a travesty.

Your poor sister and niece.

He was the child’s parent and had every right to take her with him. Your sister’s remedy was to go through the courts.

She chose not to do this.

Is the sister really you op?

Are you closer with your sister now @LoveMyPiano

He was the child’s parent and had every right to take her with him. Your sister’s remedy was to go through the courts.

Sounds like the trauma of his affairs caused mental health issues and trauma that undermined her well-being and confidence to the point that this didn't seem like an option.

He didn't have every right to threaten his DD with being cut off from everyone else she held dear if she lived with her mum. That's not a choice.

@dottiedodah

Sounds like shes had a tough time of it . As you say .I have no first hand experience of Divorce (Thankfully) .However the Courts have to consider the welfare of the child as the focal point .MH is tough on DC.And they presumably felt living with their Mum at that point, was not in the childs best interests.Its a moot point whether MH was caused by ongoing issues from childhood ,or by her husband .He has looked after his child ,and brought her up to be able to have a University education .As above PP said ,would her daughter be interested in seeing her Mum now? Having an Adult RL would be healing .There are no winners in these situations .Many men have felt badly done by in the past ,but it still seems unfair that women would have to pay for a non resident child somehow .

Sorry for brief response, but just to repeat, the Courts were not involved in any decision regarding the daughter. By the time the subject was raised, it was regarded as "too late", even though sister wanted it be looked into officially or via mediation, when Ancillary Matters went to a Judge - NOT because of money, but her daughter's future well-being! Everything was dragged out for so long that initial circumstances were changed and used against her. It was AFTER that that she started to come apart at the seams.

@Duxiejhrhrvjz

So DN decided to live with her dad, then when he moved in with his new wife and her daughters, she didn’t want to move in too and he did anyway? DN still preferring to live with her Granny and not your sister though? Both parents sounds really bad here actually on this front.

He did not give her the choice.

He was perfectly entitled to take her.

If the op’s sister wanted to challenge the manipulation then the Avenue to do that was through the courts.

Not true, Kimono.

He told the child that if she failed to choose him, she would never see him, or her extended family through him again.

The OP only has her sister's word for that and as a PP said, NRPs will often say things to justify why they don't live with their DC.

Absent fathers for example tend to do this a lot.

And let's not forget, the OP appears to be 'learning' all this from one side only.

@Alltheblue

He was the child’s parent and had every right to take her with him. Your sister’s remedy was to go through the courts.

Sounds like the trauma of his affairs caused mental health issues and trauma that undermined her well-being and confidence to the point that this didn't seem like an option.

He didn't have every right to threaten his DD with being cut off from everyone else she held dear if she lived with her mum. That's not a choice.

Sounds like the trauma of his affairs caused mental health issues and trauma that undermined her well-being and confidence to the point that this didn't seem like an option.

Maybe, but to a child, that looks like "mum abandoned me". Unfortunately, millions of people go through marriage breakdowns and affairs, but they still have to be there for their kids, no matter how much they're hurting.

He didn't have every right to threaten his DD with being cut off from everyone else she held dear if she lived with her mum. That's not a choice.

We only have OP's sisters' word that this was the case, though, and let me tell you from experience, parents who abandon their children lie. A lot.

True @WorraLiberty

My ex’s recollection of our split is quite different to mine.

@Skyll

True *@WorraLiberty*

My ex’s recollection of our split is quite different to mine.

Yep, there's a lot of 'Crazy bitch wouldn't let me see my kids' etc.

"We only have OP's sisters' word that this was the case, though, and let me tell you from experience, parents who abandon their children lie. A lot."

Totally agree..