Private schools worth it?

[Anon2136]

I’m really torn on whether to put my DD in private school. She’s in year 2 and the private’s near us start from year 3. We can afford it, We’re not super rich but both working and in good enough jobs although we will have to cut back on some things but money wise yes it’s doable. Also I will have to keep working I enjoy working but sometimes I wish I could cut my hours and be at home more. I’m really torn on what to do. Im going around in circles I keep convincing myself that her primary is good enough but then something happens then I think private might be worth it. I’m not sure what to compare it with but for example she very rarely has her homework marked by teacher and it’s frustrating as we spend all weekend doing the homework.

Please be kind and obviously give me differing views but no attacking. I actually asked same question couple of years back but got attacked by people being really nasty and done comments were awful that in end I just didn’t read anymore. I’m hoping this time I can get some useful advice. Any cons to private you can think of please tell me.

Thanks in advance for any useful advice I get.

Also, I would probably go down the private tuition route before the private school route if DD were struggling in any way. If we lived near a great private school I'd probably be more likely to go for it.

If you’re not happy with the state school, I’d suggest trying private. You can always move back to state if it doesn’t work out (assuming the state school isn’t oversubscribed).

We stuck it out at a state school for several years before going private and wish we had done it sooner. Main concerns were the teachers only had time for the bottom ten kids of the class / bad behaviour of other kids was a constant lesson disruption.

How much is one grade higher in one A level worth it - eg AAA from AAB. That's what a UCL longitudinal study said the outcome of private school was.

From UCL:
The findings revealed that going to a private school was associated with an 8 percentage point rise up the overall A level rankings – equivalent to a pupil gaining A level grades AAA compared to AAB.

Here is the study from UCL
cls.ucl.ac.uk/rich-resources-of-private-schools-give-pupils-advantage-at-a-level-new-research-shows/

It's pretty marginal over your life, I would say. No one much cares about your exact A level grades past Freshers week.

Better extra curriculars at private school but you can supplement them yourself at state school.

@MojoMoon

How much is one grade higher in one A level worth it - eg AAA from AAB. That's what a UCL longitudinal study said the outcome of private school was.

From UCL:
The findings revealed that going to a private school was associated with an 8 percentage point rise up the overall A level rankings – equivalent to a pupil gaining A level grades AAA compared to AAB.

Here is the study from UCL
cls.ucl.ac.uk/rich-resources-of-private-schools-give-pupils-advantage-at-a-level-new-research-shows/

It's pretty marginal over your life, I would say. No one much cares about your exact A level grades past Freshers week.

Better extra curriculars at private school but you can supplement them yourself at state school.

Grades are only one benefit though. It’s not all about outcome-it’s also about the time you’re there.

I've had 2 daughters go to Russell Group unis. Both A/A*s at GCSE & A level. Both at uni with many private school kids and both have always wondered why people privately educate when you can end up at the same place without it.

Additionally both loved their time at school and had a good balance of study and fun having plenty of time for their out of school hobbies and weekends free. Our only direct experience on private school is one of their friends who went to state primary and a private thereafter - which was a bit of a shock to her. She was very clever but extremely pushed, worked incredibly hard over very long hours, hated it all, spent a lot of time crying but came out with brilliant grades. Again though to go to uni with state school students.

I agree with some of the snippets I've read above about low levels of aspiration at state schools. At my DC's school where they achieved brilliantly it was almost on the floor! It was up to my DC's middle class parents to inject that, which we did. And in the process I think our children passed it on to a few friends whose parents hadn't ever lived or worked outside the borough. It's lovely to see them thriving out in the world now. But I really don't think the school did that. In an effort to be painfully inclusive of all abilities it let the top academic achievers sort themselves out. Which is fine for children like ours, but no so fine for others.

School is also more than just academic education and I think that private school is better all round, including for manners, etiquette, extra curricular and attention to the emotional needs of the children.

Conversely re SEN I’ve actually heard state schools are vastly superior in that field.

@shallIswim I agree with you. DD2 had to plead for her predicted grades to be raised. The school was quite happy to predict CCC as that was fine to get into the local uni. Unfortunately with one honourable exception the teaching was to the C grade. Students who aspired to more had to sort themselves out.

Not all state schools are like this. We just happen to be in an area with only one very poor school.

At uni on a STEM course DD said that the former private and grammar school students were very familiar with lab equipment. Within their knowledge they were very fluent however outside their knowledge they lack the skills to just work it out. So easy ride at the start but struggling later.

@Justheretoaskaquestion91

School is also more than just academic education and I think that private school is better all round, including for manners, etiquette, extra curricular and attention to the emotional needs of the children.

Conversely re SEN I’ve actually heard state schools are vastly superior in that field.

My grown children have perfectly good manners thank you! What a strange assertion; it makes it sound like private school is some kind of strange finishing school! I would agree though that private can give children a tremendous sense of self confidence (dare i say over confidence in some cases?).

@shallIswim

I’m sure your children and many, many others do. But this is my personal experience - it’s not a huge stretch.

It's a lot of money when the return is one grade in one subject ( eg a levels are AAA and not AAB for similar pupils) and maybe some better etiquette and manners (?)

Average cost for 11-18 private day education in total is £110k. Add on a prep school from 7 at its £200k.

The state educated child will still get into a Russell Group university or medical degree etc alongside the privately educated similar child. No one cares later on that they for AAB and the privately educated similar child got AAA.

It's true that even with identical grades at AAA, a higher proportion of privately educated children get into Oxbridge but the difference is not massive and I would say primarily driven by some particular old fashioned colleges and the benefits are only really felt by some very elite boarding schools, not more provincial day schools. Plus privately school kids much more likely to study subjects that are easier to get into like Russian, Italian, Classics - few state schools offer them so the applicants per place much lower than for English, History, Maths etc where the state/private difference is then much smaller.

From a purely financial perspective ON AVERAGE the return on your investment in fees is quite weak. Private schools don't appear to significantly boost life time earnings for similar pupils (eg not the overall average but comparing pupils of similar family wealth backgrounds)

Stick that money in savings and let it grow and you could gift your child an enormous cash sum as an adult to use a house deposit or even better compounding - put it in their pension.

For most middle class children of fairly decent academic ability who have a reasonable state school they can attend, buying them a house or a huge pension payment would likely be financially a better return for them than private school.

That's on average - individual cases will vary but everyone is much more average than they think they are.

I'd say in certain cases of special needs, the return on investment in specialist private school fees might be well worth it as it could be the difference between being able to read confidently or not, which obviously has a massive impact on lifetime earnings. Educational prowess does not have a linear relationship with lifetime earnings or wellbeing - being literate and numerate to a reasonable level is a massive step change in life time outcomes.

No study to back that assertion up though.

My daughter went to state primary and hated it. She then went to a different state primary and loved it. Every state school is completely different and you may find a 1 form entry a better fit. She is now in a secondary private school and loves it. Personally I would save for private secondary as there are lots of excellent primary schools and they really benefit from smaller classes etc as they get older.

Speaking as someone who has 3 Dcs in private schools Oh yes definitely! For us it’s worth every penny.

From the parents we know at school, I don't think any are looking to buy higher grades through the private route. The benefits are a much broader and holistic curriculum, state of the art facilities, focusing on the individual child and, from my own experience, growing their confidence and self-belief. It creates opportunities for academic achievement, but only if the child is willing and able to use the support on offer.

I also like that the teachers are more accessible both to the child and parents. Any concerns are actioned IME, rather than met with a bunch of excuses.

This is just my own experience though. There are rubbish private schools and wonderful state schools, so it isn't appropriate to say one approach applies to an entire sector. The actual schools you're thinking about need to be considered whilst also giving thought to the child in question and what environment would suit them best.

@PoshWatchShitShoes

From the parents we know at school, I don't think any are looking to buy higher grades through the private route. The benefits are a much broader and holistic curriculum, state of the art facilities, focusing on the individual child and, from my own experience, growing their confidence and self-belief. It creates opportunities for academic achievement, but only if the child is willing and able to use the support on offer.

I also like that the teachers are more accessible both to the child and parents. Any concerns are actioned IME, rather than met with a bunch of excuses.

This is just my own experience though. There are rubbish private schools and wonderful state schools, so it isn't appropriate to say one approach applies to an entire sector. The actual schools you're thinking about need to be considered whilst also giving thought to the child in question and what environment would suit them best.

Couldn't have phrased this better myself.

Describes our reasons and experience perfectly. I am not paying for the grades - exams can be retaken, subjects changed etc. The confidence, self belief and overall care to emotional needs is much harder to get right and takes a long time to rebuild

@MojoMoon

It's a lot of money when the return is one grade in one subject ( eg a levels are AAA and not AAB for similar pupils) and maybe some better etiquette and manners (?)

Average cost for 11-18 private day education in total is £110k. Add on a prep school from 7 at its £200k.

The state educated child will still get into a Russell Group university or medical degree etc alongside the privately educated similar child. No one cares later on that they for AAB and the privately educated similar child got AAA.

It's true that even with identical grades at AAA, a higher proportion of privately educated children get into Oxbridge but the difference is not massive and I would say primarily driven by some particular old fashioned colleges and the benefits are only really felt by some very elite boarding schools, not more provincial day schools. Plus privately school kids much more likely to study subjects that are easier to get into like Russian, Italian, Classics - few state schools offer them so the applicants per place much lower than for English, History, Maths etc where the state/private difference is then much smaller.

From a purely financial perspective ON AVERAGE the return on your investment in fees is quite weak. Private schools don't appear to significantly boost life time earnings for similar pupils (eg not the overall average but comparing pupils of similar family wealth backgrounds)

Stick that money in savings and let it grow and you could gift your child an enormous cash sum as an adult to use a house deposit or even better compounding - put it in their pension.

For most middle class children of fairly decent academic ability who have a reasonable state school they can attend, buying them a house or a huge pension payment would likely be financially a better return for them than private school.

That's on average - individual cases will vary but everyone is much more average than they think they are.

I'd say in certain cases of special needs, the return on investment in specialist private school fees might be well worth it as it could be the difference between being able to read confidently or not, which obviously has a massive impact on lifetime earnings. Educational prowess does not have a linear relationship with lifetime earnings or wellbeing - being literate and numerate to a reasonable level is a massive step change in life time outcomes.

No study to back that assertion up though.

Not all of us send our DC Private purely for grades. I don’t view it as an investment at all.

My DD is in her last year of Prep. I moved her at the start of year 1 out of state primary, as we moved to an area with pretty poor primary schools. We aren't well off, it has meant big sacrifices all round to do it but I have never regretted the decision. She is now an incredibly articulate, polite, confident child and has had truly a lovely and nurturing experience. The school is amazing, it's pretty small with about 45 on the role, and has offered a wonderful start. We can't afford private secondary so she'll go to the local grammar next year.
I think it depends on what primary schools are in your area really. Had we had a decent one DD wouldn't have gone to the private one, but really we had very little choice!

Yes. For me it is far less about the end result (meaning exam success) and far more about the experience they are having whilst at school. It is such an important time of life. The pastoral care and the opportunities beyond the academic make it worthwhile.

I say this as someone whose parents deliberately moved into an area with an outstanding state school - it was the top performing non-selective school one year while I was there and was top 10 every year.

No one really knows till you get end product. I worked in academia for many years until I became ill. So dc had been filtered already. I still think that people need to admit that a lot of these schools have entrance exams so less able dc just can’t get in hence their better results.

We didn’t send DS to a private school, DH went to one of the best private schools in the country. I didn’t but we met whilst working at the same RG University. We knew we could actually tutor DS at home if required in a lot of subjects to beyond A level. So we just didn’t bother and he achieved three A levels at grade A. DS state school had dire results but we knew our child, it was a five minute walk. People ponder how clever their dc are and ask about stuff like the gifted and talented register on here. DS is naturally academic like his parents, DH is literally at genius levels brain wise and his research has helped save millions of lives.

Are you sending for results, for the alleged polish, for the contacts in the hope that it will lead to big money?

Best paid people we know personally are two of DH mates who ended up working as bankers in the city, both state educated but did read for their PhD’s at Cambridge where they met DH. Next level down are academics and Medics, mix of state and private.

Then there are some people who have never achieved a great wage and they are a mix of state and private. Then what of people on a personal level, their relationships both romantic and platonic. Again a mixture. Really clever dc will do well wherever you send them. My friend went to a really rough school where the police and social services rolled up all the time for awful reasons. She was taken on to the grad scheme at PWC.

You never really know how much tutoring is going on state and private until you are in a school. Even then parents don't talk about it and you slowly realise how many people are doing it.

Also there are some academic private schools, some middling and they have a range of abilities.

We've recently moved DD from state primary to independent prep (St Aubyn's - which I think is in your neck of the woods, OP). She was at a local OFSTED outstanding primary, but she found school boring and noisy. She's a high achiever, and just wasn't being challenged (and I can completely understand the difficulty in doing this with a class of 35 kids).

It's only been a few weeks in private, but she has a completely different outlook. She loves that it's quiet, that everyone is interested in class, that she's given extra work when she finishes a task, that she gets to learn netball and has singing, music and art. It's a different world, and has made her love going to school again. So for her, it absolutely was the right choice.

@Anon2136 We were in a similar boat last year, although ours were a little older - we already missed the start of Year 3, and had another in Year 5. Local state school started out great, it was a small community school, Outstanding ofsted, well-regarded in the local area.

Even before the pandemic, I thought the school were not really pushing my children enough, and during and after the pandemic, there was a real decline in the standard of education being provided. Even when they were back in class. Similar to what you say, teachers just didn't seem engaged in their development, no work being marked, etc.

I'm not blaming the teachers, I know how tough it's been. But at the end of the day, our children are put through the education system only once. They only get one shot at learning through each stage - so I looked around for prep school places, and we were very lucky to find a place for one child, followed by the other.

The difference in the attitude to learning is vast. There is such a positive atmosphere in the prep school, and my children are so much more engaged with their learning. They find learning fun now, whereas before they would constantly tell me about how disruptive the class was. They would have been happy to stay in the state school, but they didn't know any different.

It was a difficult decision to make, not just financially, but also concerns about if they didn't settle in the new school, especially for the older one. However I think once you start getting doubts in your mind about the current school, it's really difficult to ignore those niggling issues.

Whatever you decide, best of luck. However if you do decide to move, try for Year 3 - they work around a year ahead of state schools, as some prep schools do help prepare for independent secondary school entry (if they only go up to Year 6). There has been less focus on grammar school entry (different type of exam) as many parents stick with the private route. Also I was surprised to learn that many of the parents still pay for additional tuition - I don't think that's necessary, but each to their own.

I still think that people need to admit that a lot of these schools have entrance exams so less able dc just can’t get in hence their better results

Lucentblade it’s hardly a secret that many private schools have entrance exams.

I think I cross-posted with @FiddleFigs, but precisely the same experience. Also in the local area.

I wanted to add that I really value being able to email their teachers now, even with simple queries - communication is really easy, both ways. Unlike the prior school, where it seemed to be a criminal offence to try and talk to the teachers about anything! The previous school had a headteacher that was very offstandish - not welcome to new ideas or suggestions.