Private schools worth it?

[Anon2136]

I’m really torn on whether to put my DD in private school. She’s in year 2 and the private’s near us start from year 3. We can afford it, We’re not super rich but both working and in good enough jobs although we will have to cut back on some things but money wise yes it’s doable. Also I will have to keep working I enjoy working but sometimes I wish I could cut my hours and be at home more. I’m really torn on what to do. Im going around in circles I keep convincing myself that her primary is good enough but then something happens then I think private might be worth it. I’m not sure what to compare it with but for example she very rarely has her homework marked by teacher and it’s frustrating as we spend all weekend doing the homework.

Please be kind and obviously give me differing views but no attacking. I actually asked same question couple of years back but got attacked by people being really nasty and done comments were awful that in end I just didn’t read anymore. I’m hoping this time I can get some useful advice. Any cons to private you can think of please tell me.

Thanks in advance for any useful advice I get.

The benefit of private school is it’s a self selecting sample. All the kids have parents who work and earn enough to pay fees. It automatically rules out kids from bad families, uneducated, on benefits, problems like drugs and alcohol, crime, etc. As a minimum your child’s friends are guaranteed to be middle class.

My DD12 is in a lovely small private all girls school, about 10 miles from home. I put her there in year 7 as the local primary was good and I wanted her to have local friends.

It's been a perfect mix. I'm a big believer in single sex education given the problems with sexual assaults in mixed secondary schools, and the class sizes are small and really work for my daughter who is ADHD/ASD

She's thriving, you have to pick the right school for your child. Just because it's private it doesn't mean it's right, so look at the options.

I have children in both and also went to both (as did my husband). It really depends on the school and the child. I would always choose good state over private though for so many reasons, not least the fact that with private schools you don't really get to see what is going on inside until you get in them, and there is very little you can do if you or your child is unhappy. Sadly, I have seen over and over again private schools (and other parents...) close ranks against a struggling child/family.

All are not equal. My daughter went to a brilliant prep because her only primary option was a failing school. She then went to a crap private upper school and is now really happy at a state mixed grammar.

So many variables. What exactly do you hope to achieve Vs her primary?

You do need to factor in how easily you can afford this. While belt tightening can feel like it is in a good cause to start with, are you prepared for many years of belt tightening? What will happen if your DD doesnt make the cut for grammar? Will the belt tightening have to go on into secondary age?

One of the saddest threads I have read was of a DM who was going to have to pull her DD out of private school the term before GCSEs. The poster had exhausted every line of credit. They were already deep in debt to the school. It wasnt something they predicted at the start but business failed. Secure jobs suddenly became insecure and then gone.

I’ve had one at private and it was worth every penny for him, and one at state who is absolutely flying. I’d love to move the one at state to private but I have absolutely no read to.

If the grammar is Woodford County, is the private Bancrofts or Forest? Both of these go up to 18 so would you really move her in Y3 and then move her again in Y7?

I think one of the advantages of doing prep at Forest is that you don't need to take the 11+. Not sure about Bancrofts.

I've heard mixed reports about Woodford County, it's quite pressurised, but some girls thrive there.

I wouldn't personally pay for private at primary. Agree with others to explore other state options too if you're not happy.

We have a family member who has decided to send her only child to private school because she wants him to have the best.
He’s only in primary and they actually live very close to an outstanding primary. They spend over an hour travelling by public transport each way because their car is broken and they can’t afford to repair it.

It seems a crazy choice to me, they are struggling now and the fees will only go up and up. He has no local friends and dad actually should be retiring but there is no sign if that happening anytime soon.
Even though she wants the best I think she is actually depriving him for so much in the end.

Yes, worth it.

@Flubbah you are naive if you think private schools don’t have issues with drugs and alcohol. Privately educate teens are equally liable to make stupid choices and may have a bigger disposable income so to do.

The benefit of private school is it’s a self selecting sample. All the kids have parents who work and earn enough to pay fees. It automatically rules out kids from bad families, uneducated, on benefits, problems like drugs and alcohol, crime, etc. As a minimum your child’s friends are guaranteed to be middle class.

This is why these threads always head into bun fight territory. This is an awful attitude to have towards children who have zero control over the circumstances that they're born into. Being on benefits isn't a crime and having parents who are "uneducated" is even more of a reason to provide opportunities for those children. That's why things like bursaries exist. As for guaranteeing that's your child friends are "middle class", most parents just care that their kids friends are nice to be around and kind to them. That's possible even if your parents are on benefits.

Having had 1 in each system at infant level, I think private primary is definitely worth it if it’s the right school for your child. Look around very critically at the year your dd would be going into in each school and look at how well work is marked, the curriculum followed, the extra curricular activities, costs, class sizes, facilities, 2nd hand uniform sales etc.

Really think about your child and what they’d enjoy and benefit from. Then weigh up all the options. 11+ can be incredibly competitive- I know as I went through it with my ds a few years ago, so think about what your options would be if your dd didn’t pass it.

Fwiw, my dd who was in a private prep from reception has had a far easier time academically and is more confident than her older brother who changed to private at the end of y2 - after 3 years of having the enthusiasm for learning knocked out of him at a previously outstanding infant school, where he didn’t need to try because he was excelling at the low targets set. Ofc everyone is different, but as a primary teacher myself I strongly believed I could make up for any deficiencies in his education at home, but you really can’t change the attitudes that are instilled in them.

@heiferr

The benefit of private school is it’s a self selecting sample. All the kids have parents who work and earn enough to pay fees. It automatically rules out kids from bad families, uneducated, on benefits, problems like drugs and alcohol, crime, etc. As a minimum your child’s friends are guaranteed to be middle class.

This is why these threads always head into bun fight territory. This is an awful attitude to have towards children who have zero control over the circumstances that they're born into. Being on benefits isn't a crime and having parents who are "uneducated" is even more of a reason to provide opportunities for those children. That's why things like bursaries exist. As for guaranteeing that's your child friends are "middle class", most parents just care that their kids friends are nice to be around and kind to them. That's possible even if your parents are on benefits.

I was appalled by that comment too. Guaranteeing your kids have MC friends is NOT a benefit. There are all kinds of people in this world and school is where we learn to live alongside them.

Justtheretoaskaquestion…..with regard to it being obvious from the stats which is better……that is at a macro level isn’t it.

However, there are many INDIVIDUAL children in state schools who outperform those in private schools and many in state schools who get the highest marks possible and couldn’t have performed any better (if that’s how you want to measure it) in any other school. So for lots of individuals, it really doesn’t lead to clearly better outcomes, although overall it might.

It very much depends on the individual schools. There are state schools which outperform almost all private schools. You couldn’t really get a better academic education. And there are truly crap fee paying schools which are underfunded and using dated methods and which get terrible results. And yes, people pay for them.

So, as lots of people say, you absolutely cannot generalise and the gap between the sectors has reduced. State schools have seen big progress in the last 20 years and many offer a great education.

I actually work in a very selective and successful independent school. Almost all of the students are very high performers, but if I were to look at over 20 years of experience, I’d say the real top performers hadn’t usually been at the Preps, but had gone private at 11 or 13. Honestly, it really hadn’t held them back.

I’d say some fee paying schools are worth paying for…..but large numbers aren’t really. When you pay, you need to feel you’re getting something substantially better. Occasionally it is hugely better, but often it’s only slightly better or different, beyond the shiny coating that disguises much of it. It’s often an expensive £25k per year for something that’s a bit better. That’s fine if £25k yearly isn’t noticed by you, but if you’re going to scrimp and save for it, it’s very expensive.

@MrsKDB Precisely. I'm weighing up secondary school options at the moment and if I'm honest, I'm far more concerned about my child encountering that sort of attitude in the classroom than encountering children's who face struggles at home. It's just not realistic to pretend that those less fortunate than you don't exist, nor would I want her think that was ok

We're very happy with private primary we've chosen. We chose it because whilst the schools near us are very good, the in take is huge (3 form entry)and massively over subscribed (smallest class is 31, biggest 35) simply due to insufficient school places in our area. I felt DS would get lost and there'd be less individual time.

I was specific about wanting a school that isn't solely focussed on academic achievement and understood that good education was more than that, and I think we've achieved that - we discounted some schools due to their over emphasis of academics.

The standard of education is much higher in the state sector and the standard of teaching is much better

Not true.

OP, there is no such thing as “private school” in the sense that private schools differ as much as state schools (if not more so).

Nobody can usefully advise you about this particular school without knowing which one it is!

Some independent primaries are phenomenal and worth every penny. Some are money for old rope, frankly.

What attracts you to this particular school? Smaller class sizes? Pastoral care? Leavers’ destinations? Facilities?

One thing I would say (on a very general level) is that once in the independent sector at primary, kids tend to stay in this sector through secondary (unless there is some amazing state school on offer locally and / or a dearth of independent options).

Have you asked the school what their leavers’ destinations are? Is this school a prep and what senior schools are they prepping them for? Entrance exams for grammars can be quite different to entrance exams for independents. Selective independents will all have their own individual selection processes and will involve interviews as well as exams. Grammars often just have multi-choice VR / NVR tests or similar, but they don’t ask them to do creative writing tasks, group assessments or written comprehensions and interviews on top. You may find that this private school is not going to prepare them for this nearby grammar you mention as most pupils will be staying in the independent sector, so they’ll be prepping them for those exams. Every area has its own malarkey, but it’s definitely worth asking now.

As a general rule, independent preps have higher expectations in terms of behaviour. So, for instance, the head (or a senior staff member) will be in the door every morning and when they arrive they will have to shake hands, make eye contact and say “good morning.” This kind of thing. There are other diff skills that they somehow seem to absorb and, on average, they will be more confident in terms of public speaking and this type of thing. Sport will involve more tournaments with other independent schools in the area. Homework will be marked!! If you’re not happy about anything, you are a paying customer and will be listened to (hopefully - as long as you’re not mad)!

On the negative side, some private primaries are run by individuals or families who are, shall we say, ‘quirky.’ This will have ramifications for the ethos in the school. Go and meet the head and do a few visits before you decide to shift your DC. Check they are not nutters. Ask loads of questions and don’t hold back. Go with your gut feeling.

Also, your DC could almost certainly do a trial day or days before you commit to anything.

If you’re really irritated with the current school, a move probably sounds as if it’s in order. But do visit a few independents as there’s no one size fits all. Shop around basically. Good luck!

soft skills not “diff!”

@MrsKDB

It depends, as others have said.

Be aware though, that private school confidence can work both ways. I’ve met many private school kids - moving into undergrad - who are, frankly, insufferably smug with misplaced confidence in their own abilities. Give me a sparky comp kid any day of the week.

This

@WombatChocolate

This has been asked so many times before.

Broadly speaking, on a wide level looking at millions of children, typically the privately educated do better than the state educated. However, many many state educated children do better than many privately educated children.

Yes, you can only choose the value and costs for yourself. You need to compare the private school YOUR child would attend with the state school THEY would attend and see how different those particular 2 schools are.

You have to decide what the ‘cost’ of the benefit is. This depends on how much the fees will mean in terms of life sacrifices for you firstly. If the fees are a drop in the o Dan and very affordable with no imaoct, the ‘cost’ is low to you. This makes it more ‘affordable’. If however the fees mean you can’t have holidays, or you worry about your boiler breaking down, the ‘cost’ is much higher for you. If you’re in the latter group and the orivate school is only slightly better than the state school available to your child, then the cost of choosing orivate becomes astronomical, in terms of the cost to you and the very limited gain.

If you are loaded and the state school where you live is truly dire and the independent is the best intbhe country, then the ‘value’ is high. Firstly it is very affordable, but also the ‘gain’ of private compared to state in this case is huge.

Most people don’t know the answers to these questions fully. They often can’t judge actually how much better the private school might be. They struggle to find ways to measure it accurately. Many don’t actually know many facts about the local options at all, but instead work in a prejudiced about state schools or private schools that might not be borne out in their locality. They also struggle to think fully about the longer term implications of fees….how rapidly they actually rise, ir the jump at secondary level, ir forget about factoring in impact on pension payments, retirement etc too.

For most people, private education is a luxury good and it’s not affordable and even if it can be stretched to isn’t good value. That’s because their income isn’t sufficiently high to make the fees unnoticeable, and also because many orivate schools are not substantially better than their local state schools. They might be better, but the small amount if gain is extortionately expensive in terms of the cost and true impact on most families, apart from those who are terrifically wealthy.

Oh my gosh wombat This post here should be like the one on the relationship thread that gets pinned. I have been on MN for over a decade and I have never read such a good explanation of this.

I'm torn.

My dd goes to state school.

As did I and my DH. He both earn in the higher tax bracket and neither of us went to uni.

What do you want to achieve that you think isn't possible in state school? That's not being goady it's a genuine question as it may mean I re think what I do for my DD.

In my own experience children are either academic or they are not and not all careers are reliant on that.

It's something I am also thinking about but I'm not sure exactly why.

Well, I think if you have a son who's a selfish lying twat and he wants to be prime minister Eton's definitely worth it.

Both my girls went to state primary and are now at grammar school so I don’t think private is worth it.

Some of the kids at their primary left for the local preps in year 4 and several didn’t pass their 11+.

However, both my girls were focused and hard working and got ‘greater depth’ across the board.

I run my own business from home and had loads of time to devote to them (I also used to be a teacher) so private seemed unnecessary. I’m sure if things were different I’d have considered it.

Nope, not worth the money.
Have experience of private school, would never have sent my own kids, have had excellent results in state school and kids were very happy.

Don't want to be too rude because of course I generalise but there are some seriously grim parents you would have to mix with too!