Lying to someone on their deathbed?

[Nc4post99]

What’s everyone’s take on lying to someone on their death bed? As a general principle and then in this specific incident listed below.

My personal view is it’s wrong, but what about the pretence to make the dying person happy? I still feel this is wrong and shows a lack of respect for the dying person and there are many other ways to leave a loved one with fond memories than a lie.

Person in question lies to a family member on their death bed about gaining a snr military position straight out the gate, bought from eBay the kit to sell the lie. Person In question did not know the family member would die, it v much came out of the blue. Now the family member has passed, the person in question is maintaining the lie and wearing the uniform etc.

Person in question has a history of being a pathological liar and weaving these sort of intricate tales to vulnerable elderly family members and financially gaining due how how ‘proud’ they were of him. I’m talking in the £000s, cars bought etc not a £5/£10 here and there.

Lying to con someone out of money is wrong.

Lying as in a white lie to let someone die with peace isn’t a bad thing.

My ex and I lied to my nana when she was very close to the end. Our home had been flooded, we were massively underinsured and massively in the shit. We outright lied that it was all sorted and that we were happy and secure.

What!?

Can you talk to other family members about this? That person sounds completely nuts - what was their thought process as they went on eBay, ffs?

Not for something like this. I'm not a fan of lying generally, but sometimes in rare, specific scenarios it might be different - though only if it is borne out of kindness. For example - dying elderly person (with no hope of respite) in a hospital/hospice has an equally elderly cat. The cat is found to have passed away one morning by relatives and, when visiting the elderly person, the relative says "the cat's fine" when asked. To me, that's a kind and/or merciful thing to do, if the situation warrants it.

To lie, manipulate and misrepresent to gain favour, status or finance is wrong and cruel. There may also, rightly, be legal consequences of falsely impersonating an army or police officer.

I see the example you cite as definitely being wrong and it would be completely abhorrent to me.

Yeah that's a conman

Impersonating most uniformed officers can be an actual offence, depending on what the person doing the impersonation does while in the uniform.

Seems to me like the deathbed lie is not the primary issue here, it’s all the other stuff which is odd.

I don’t get it. How do you know he bought the kit from Ebay but nobody else does?

As pp say, lying to give peace and claim all is well so the dying person isn't worrying about a loved one is fine.
Your person is just a scam artist.

The specific situation you’ve described sounds bizarre and beyond any kind of “normal” lie you might tell.
So leaving that aside, I disagree strongly with your view that it is always wrong to lie. I would be totally fine keeping bad news from them, and lying that I/a particular situation was ok if I/it wasn’t. My aim would be to provide comfort and minimise distress. If someone is going to die within a day or two, what use is bad news.

My take would be to drop these guys a message personally...

thewaltercumpershunterclub.wordpress.com

It's "Stolen Valour" -- it is abhorent and
disrespectful to the real military members
and higher ranks.

It's illegal.

It's criminal fraud; and it's disgusting.

On My Dad's deathbed I told him every and I mean EVERY little shitty I'd ever done, every secret, every immoral thing. I cried my eyes out, I wasn't after forgiveness and I wasn't trying to disappoint him by making out he'd done a bad job and raised me wrong. I just couldn't let him go, he was my best friend and I had to tell him the truth as that's how he raised me. It takes a special kind of scum to lie to someone on their deathbed.

Depending on what the lie was, I can sympathise entirely with someone lying to a person on their deathbed. But this situation isn't a white lie: it's fraud, and honestly pretty disgusting.

Few PPs have made the distinction between a soft white lie, ie not mentioning a pet has died, that’s a good point. It’s even something I did with my late grandma, I didn’t say my dog had died as I didn’t want to upset her given her circumstances. I was more thinking larger lies, but you’re spot on in those instances little white lies to not worry someone at a time like that is clearly the better thing to do.

With regards to how I know it was bought online on eBay, it’s because that probably one of the only ways you could get a military uniform without being part of the military, although I suppose you could get them from shop, but internet seems the most likely for ease.

The deathbed thing is an issue for me, because of the nature of the lie and how elaborate it is, bringing props etc. To me it shows a total disrespect and disregard for the dying individual who was a very honest person and would be ‘proud’ no matter what. I’m also concerned if this was a ‘play’ that the individual had started before the deceased’s health started to decline.

I’ve googled it and I’m not sure stolen valour is a crime In the Uk, definitely is in the US.

When my grandma was dying (it was a "short illness"), I had recently submitted my PhD and was waiting for my viva -- but the rest of my family started calling me "doctor" and told my grandmother that I'd passed AND had a book contract already. This was about a two weeks before she died.

It was easier to go along with it than correct her or try to explain how I had completed the PhD but didn't have it yet, or how I had essentially written a book but didn't actually have a contract with a UP -- I was the first person in my family to even finish secondary school, so the differences between A levels and degrees and a PhD and how books get published in academia were beyond their experience.

Still haven't got around to submitting my book proposal, even several years later...

There is a difference between telling a person on their death bed that you have been promoted and another thing entirely maintaining the lie.

My younger sibling died about 6 months before my grandma did. She’d lost her husband the previous year and hadn’t coped very well.

We never told her about my brother, we didn’t think she’d be able to cope with the news of her grandson dying so it was easier for her (but certainly not us) to keep up the pretence that he was still away at university. She had Alzheimer’s.

Every family must do what is right for them and the person concerned and to hell with blanket applications of morals/what is seen as right.

Again distinction between white lies to protect someone from something really devastating, esp when things like dementia come into play. That’s unequivocally the right thing to do.

To me this specific situation is different than saying ‘i got the job’ to someone on their deathbed rather than saying you haven’t heard back or didnt get it you know, whilst i wouldn’t do it myself, i probably wouldn’t bring it up but I’d never feel it was morally wrong. This person has never been in the military at all, they had actually pretended to join before when they lived in their parental home, took money from parents for uniform and training (but actually went on holiday) then the lie came out but the parents forgave, as the person in question was 19/20 at the time

Yeah that’s weird and wrong.

My now ex fil shook hands with the brother he hated in front of his dying mum to show them they’d made up (they hadn’t spoken in years). They left the room and never spoke again - but their Mum died happy! I think that sort of thing is okay.

@AdmiralCain

On My Dad's deathbed I told him every and I mean EVERY little shitty I'd ever done, every secret, every immoral thing. I cried my eyes out, I wasn't after forgiveness and I wasn't trying to disappoint him by making out he'd done a bad job and raised me wrong. I just couldn't let him go, he was my best friend and I had to tell him the truth as that's how he raised me. It takes a special kind of scum to lie to someone on their deathbed.

That’s like me @AdmiralCain. I thought too much of the deceased to ever lie to them. I’d have rather theyd be proud of me for who I was, than for a work of fiction.

The maintenance of the lie concerns me, but this person despite their problematic and actually v violent past behaviour is still viewed favourably in the family, so I’m not sure talking to anyone will do any good. It’s the potential for legal consequences, the person in questions wife (whom he is maintaining the lie with also), their family and elder members of their family and additional further more vulnerable members of his family

The specific situation you describe is absolutely wrong on every level. More because the person is continuing the lie, impersonating senior military personnel and potentially committing a crime than lying itself.

Telling a dying person an innocent white lie to avoid distress is a different matter. When my Nan was dying (in her last two weeks) she told me that she felt that I was going to have another baby and it was going to be a girl (I have a son already whom she adored). I have absolutely no idea where she got that from as we had spoken many times about the fact that I wasn't having more and she had always supported that.

However, I just nodded along with her because I didn't have the heart to tell her it wasn't happening given that her time was almost at an end. I wonder in part if she was remembering when my grandad died. He died young and at the time, my mum was in the early stages of pregnancy with my younger sister. I look very much like my mum and was a similar age to what she would have been so maybe it was that.

Either way, no harm done, although there is still no baby, girl or otherwise!

@Nc4post99 Thank you, you phrased that a million times better than I could have done.

It’s despicable to take the glory of being in the armed forces without the risk. I’d assume he must have serious mental health problems to maintain this lie.

As you say ''white'' lies - fine.

But this is on a different scale! Is this deceptive person a close relative OP? Are you going to challenge them?