Lying to someone on their deathbed?

[Nc4post99]

What’s everyone’s take on lying to someone on their death bed? As a general principle and then in this specific incident listed below.

My personal view is it’s wrong, but what about the pretence to make the dying person happy? I still feel this is wrong and shows a lack of respect for the dying person and there are many other ways to leave a loved one with fond memories than a lie.

Person in question lies to a family member on their death bed about gaining a snr military position straight out the gate, bought from eBay the kit to sell the lie. Person In question did not know the family member would die, it v much came out of the blue. Now the family member has passed, the person in question is maintaining the lie and wearing the uniform etc.

Person in question has a history of being a pathological liar and weaving these sort of intricate tales to vulnerable elderly family members and financially gaining due how how ‘proud’ they were of him. I’m talking in the £000s, cars bought etc not a £5/£10 here and there.

We kept the news that her only brother had died from my aunt.

She had advanced Alzheimer's and wouldn't have remembered the conversation afterwards and each time it was mentioned in the future it would have been like the first time she heard. No chance to come to terms with it and for her grief to lessen.

It would have been cruel to do anything else

Yeah, no. I don't think they skip all training and procedure because of test scores. I think an army careers advisor might point you towards the officer entry route if you had the right qualifications/aptitudes (iirc they require good A-levels), but what's described here isn't a thing.

As to the wider moral issue - so many problems would be solved, or wouldn't come up in the first place, if people didn't tell lies, ever. Even when someone's dying. Would you like the last thing you heard in this world to be an act of dishonesty? I wouldn't.

However (before going full Immanuel Kant), there's probably an argument to be made for not proactively volunteering information that will upset them. i.e. the dementia patient upthread, 'how is my son?' - if son is dead and she's forgotten because of her dementia, 'he's okay' is probably fair enough - his condition hasn't changed recently and nobody can do him harm now. You're basically communicating that there's nothing for her to worry about re. the son, which is true. Embellishing the lie with life updates on him would IMO be going too far.

@AdmiralCain

On My Dad's deathbed I told him every and I mean EVERY little shitty I'd ever done, every secret, every immoral thing. I cried my eyes out, I wasn't after forgiveness and I wasn't trying to disappoint him by making out he'd done a bad job and raised me wrong. I just couldn't let him go, he was my best friend and I had to tell him the truth as that's how he raised me. It takes a special kind of scum to lie to someone on their deathbed.

Are you sure that you want your children (if you have them) to do that to you?

Pathological liars are unusual though, the case for your relative is unusual.
A lie to put someone's mind at ease so they can pass in peace is v different to what you have described op.

Your case is so illogical, irrational and a bizarre which is nothing to do with helping the dying person, which is shown by the fact that they carry the lie on beyond the death.

"Under UK law the making, or attempting to make a financial gain by fraudulently wearing uniforms or medals, or by pretending to be or have been in the Armed Forces is already a criminal offence of fraud under the Fraud Act 2006, as is the pretence of being awarded an official medal."

@Newmummytoakitten

If they had lied to say they had got a position after doing the training to please the Dieing person (PhD example up thread) but had told other people the actual truth that's one thing.... but to get a uniform, rock up in it and then carry on the lie it's a different level.

Are you sure they are not in the process at the moment and hoping that's the outcome? Is this person in the forces in a different position?

The person before worked in a computer shop, no connection or prior experience with the military.

They were insistent that their path is different than say the path laid out as part of the military grad schemes and they were rising in military ranks higher and faster due to a fast track application and exceptionally high test scores and then an overall shortage of people joining the military.

They are now also claiming that they’ve been taking part in military intelligence training, meetings and counter terrorism debriefs without being formally commended (sorry if that’s the wrong word) into the military.

I’m unclear if the wife to be is duped also or if she is in on it. I understand this seems ridiculous but honest to god it’s true. The person In question is a close relative of mine, who has a history of disgusting actions and based on this i do want to sever all contact (as this is the nail In the coffin) especially as I have my suspicions that this was a rouse to get money from the deceased (prior to death, relative in question despite modest earnings and no savings had recently bought an expensive house with a 40% deposit and a new state of the art car)

You tell them whatever it takes to give them comfort.

I was with my brother as he died. I knew his life support had been switched off, but I kept on reassuring him that he would he fine, and that he was just bring heavily sedated in order to allow his body to rest and heal. I very much doubt he heard me, but I lied through my back teeth to him just incase he could hear anything.

@10yearwarranty

"Under UK law the making, or attempting to make a financial gain by fraudulently wearing uniforms or medals, or by pretending to be or have been in the Armed Forces is already a criminal offence of fraud under the Fraud Act 2006, as is the pretence of being awarded an official medal."

Would this be the same for the lapels and claiming you are at the rank of lieutenant because you have the lapels @10yearwarranty?

They are now also claiming that they’ve been taking part in military intelligence training, meetings and counter terrorism debriefs

If they were doing any of those things, surely they shouldn't be talking about it?

So he is in the army?

Wouldn't his future wife be attending events in the army where they wear their uniform? I can't see how this lie can be maintained. You are the only suspicious one? No one else thinks it's odd?

"Would this be the same for the lapels and claiming you are at the rank of lieutenant because you have the lapels @10yearwarranty?"
I don't know, might be interesting to make some enquiries?!

"Person In question did not know the family member would die,"

How was it on their death bed then?

I think it's weirder that he is in the army and claiming these things. People might get away with it if everyone around them is a civilian with no knowledge of the military, but within the army and surrounded by soldiers? How on earth?

Even the training for Reserve officers is longer than that.
And security clearance can take months to come through.

Exactly what uniform is he wearing?

(Getting hold of uniform can be pretty easy. Just walk into a Surplus shop.)

@Anwenandtheicecreambaby about 20 years ago I was lost and didn't know what to do and I asked my Dad for some advice and he just said 'Do what you're going to do, most people don't take the good advice their given and already have their minds made up about what to do already, when it all go wrong I'll still be here for you'
I've never forgotten that and i'll be there for my children if I have any. I just felt bad I didn't tell him things throughout my life thinking he'd be disappointed with me but he never was.

@knittingaddict

So he is in the army?

Wouldn't his future wife be attending events in the army where they wear their uniform? I can't see how this lie can be maintained. You are the only suspicious one? No one else thinks it's odd?

Not to my knowledge, they are not now nor ever have been working In the military, in fact they are now working at a waiter, they’ve said they’re induction ceremony has been postponed due to covid.

I think if the deceased wasn’t obviously so ill at the time and had recovered they’d have questioned it. Other immediate family members i think want to believe that it is true and the person is making a positive change in their life.

Extended family believe it as they have no reason not to, as you’d have to be a sociopath to make up this elaborate of a lie. They are also unaware of past scans and ploys, as the immediate family ‘protected’ this individual.

Re fiancé and in-laws, no idea what they know… if they are in on it for financial gain, or not? I mean you’d hope not, but the lies are so implausible you start to wonder

That is being what's called a Walt, or Walter Mitty, and a special kind of hatred is reserved for these people by those who have actually served in the forces. And deservedly so.
As for lying to someone on their death bed, I don't believe it matters, it's not like they're going remember it, is it?

@yourestandingonmyneck

"Person In question did not know the family member would die,"

How was it on their death bed then?

Please see up thread for explanation. ITU doctors mentioned was touch and go, pulled through had amazing few days, consultants happy talking discharge, lie was told, few days later rapid deterioration and ultimate death.

Death was always on the cards, but at that moment in time it seemed unlikely.

@Nc4post99 Pass Out parades are being held so he's lying on that score.

Please do report this. He's putting himself at risk (there is a reason no one in intelligence says that they're in intelligence) and potentially behaving illegally

@AdmiralCain

On My Dad's deathbed I told him every and I mean EVERY little shitty I'd ever done, every secret, every immoral thing. I cried my eyes out, I wasn't after forgiveness and I wasn't trying to disappoint him by making out he'd done a bad job and raised me wrong. I just couldn't let him go, he was my best friend and I had to tell him the truth as that's how he raised me. It takes a special kind of scum to lie to someone on their deathbed.

But surely that made it all about you?

@knittingaddict

I think it's weirder that he is in the army and claiming these things. People might get away with it if everyone around them is a civilian with no knowledge of the military, but within the army and surrounded by soldiers? How on earth?

He’s not in the army or any military he’s claiming it to people with no knowledge of the armed forces

@AdmiralCain

On My Dad's deathbed I told him every and I mean EVERY little shitty I'd ever done, every secret, every immoral thing. I cried my eyes out, I wasn't after forgiveness and I wasn't trying to disappoint him by making out he'd done a bad job and raised me wrong. I just couldn't let him go, he was my best friend and I had to tell him the truth as that's how he raised me. It takes a special kind of scum to lie to someone on their deathbed.

I would be bloody fuming with my children if they did this to me. Absolutely furious and would die a very unhappy death.

Honesty is very important in our family too, but I am realistic enough to know that my adult children have down played, obfuscated and outright lied to me in the past. There is no way that I want them salving their own conscience when I'm dying. I want to go to my deathbed in blissful ignorance and them thinking of me and my needs, not themselves. Is that too much to ask?

I feel quite angry about this.

Lying on death bed to make dying person feel good about themselves is fine

He’s not in the army or any military he’s claiming it to people with no knowledge of the armed forces

So he's done no form of military training at all? That wasn't clear from the posts I read. What does he do for a job then? Close family believe him?