Lying to someone on their deathbed?

[Nc4post99]

What’s everyone’s take on lying to someone on their death bed? As a general principle and then in this specific incident listed below.

My personal view is it’s wrong, but what about the pretence to make the dying person happy? I still feel this is wrong and shows a lack of respect for the dying person and there are many other ways to leave a loved one with fond memories than a lie.

Person in question lies to a family member on their death bed about gaining a snr military position straight out the gate, bought from eBay the kit to sell the lie. Person In question did not know the family member would die, it v much came out of the blue. Now the family member has passed, the person in question is maintaining the lie and wearing the uniform etc.

Person in question has a history of being a pathological liar and weaving these sort of intricate tales to vulnerable elderly family members and financially gaining due how how ‘proud’ they were of him. I’m talking in the £000s, cars bought etc not a £5/£10 here and there.

He's maintaining the lie with his WIFE?????!

What’s everyone’s thoughts on the nature of this specific lie, ie fabricating a snr military rank (tbh alarm bells sounded for me when I heard this as the lie was the person was the rank of lieutenant as an entry level role with no military experience at all and with less than 6 weeks training, hadnt had the welcoming ceremony yet had been issued with the full uniform, that he was wearing, the uniform also looked old) to some one on their death bed? Even if the lie wasn’t being maintained now? I still think this kind of lie is disgraceful, especially because it had been attempted by the individual before

@Laiste

He's maintaining the lie with his WIFE?????!

Well she’s either in on it, or she’s being duped too…. I don’t know her well enough either way. Meant to put soon to be wife. Apologies, they aren’t married yet.

The dying part is a red herring (I'm not making light of it, just that it's slightly 'irrelevant' on this scenario)

They lied. They've bought 'kit' to perpetrate and backup the lie. It's a lie, straightforward.

There's a huge difference between telling someone in their final hours / days that everything is fine (insert white lie) etc but it's another thing completely to make up something so elaborate if they didn't know the person was going to pass away. What would have happened had they not passed, I assume they would've kept up the pretence?

Depends on the lie. Lying to anyone to swindle them is always wrong. Swindling someone who is vulnerable and/or dying is particularly low.

White lies to comfort someone who is dying/close to it I don’t think is wrong. I used to lie to my nan all the time towards the end of her life that she would see my grandad soon/he had popped out and would be back later. (He’d died few years before) She had very advanced dementia and by that time didn’t remember stuff from one minute to the next. It seemed preferable to keep reminding her that the love of her life had died, it seemed too cruel. No regrets for me.

''What’s everyone’s thoughts on the nature of this specific lie, ie fabricating a snr military rank ... to some one on their death bed? Even if the lie wasn’t being maintained now?''

It's too much. For me personally.

I wouldn't be able to draw up a list of acceptable (pet still alive) vs non-acceptable (i've been promoted to being God) but as a rule of thumb anything including physical props is a step too far.

It's a criminal offence and indicative of a seriously maladjusted and dangerous personality. I'd report them to the police en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_impostor

It's illegal under the Uniforms Act 1894 for a civilian to wear military uniform. If he is in the military, it is an offence leading to court martial to wear uniform to which you are not entitled.

@Mamamamasaurus

The dying part is a red herring (I'm not making light of it, just that it's slightly 'irrelevant' on this scenario)

They lied. They've bought 'kit' to perpetrate and backup the lie. It's a lie, straightforward.

There's a huge difference between telling someone in their final hours / days that everything is fine (insert white lie) etc but it's another thing completely to make up something so elaborate if they didn't know the person was going to pass away. What would have happened had they not passed, I assume they would've kept up the pretence?

I’d say yes and no that’s it’s irrelevant. The person was in ITU but had turned a corner when the lie was told and consultants were optimistic, it took a turn after. It’s also the person to whom the lie were told, a very honest, very generous person, a person who really valued hard work and integrity and a close close relative to the individual. So In this scenario, the lying is made worse by the fact it’s shitting on the memory of the deceased and everything they stood for.

If my knowledge of the army is correct, you would be a lieutenant straight out of officer training even with no prior experience, but people would presumably know you were going that route - you wouldn’t get ‘bumped up’ if you joined as a recruit.

Maintaining the lie with others is really weird and speaks of some sort of grandiose mental health problem.

The deathbed thing is an issue for me, because of the nature of the lie and how elaborate it is, bringing props etc. To me it shows a total disrespect and disregard for the dying individual

Except you said the person was not aware their relative was going to die, so you can't really say it's worse.....

It's abhorrent as it is.

That adds a whole other layer @wavingwhilstdrowning and @Spanielsarepainless- I had no idea, thanks for the clarification!

What about the lapels that get sewn onto a shirt? I guess it’s one thing owning them for military memorabilia (which some people are into) v saying oh look what ive got.

In answer to your question, yes, I think it’s reasonable to tell a dying person a small, inconsequential lie in order for them to feel settled, calm and happy in their final hours. By way of example, when my grandfather was dying his brother (who was also unwell) died. He was very confused at the end and so we didn’t tell him as it would’ve caused him to be distressed and served no purpose; no one actively lied, we just didn’t tell him.

What’s not reasonable is to pretend you’re something you’re not, buy the kit off eBay to further the lie (which, by the way, is nuts) and then gain financially as a result of the lie.

@Nc4post99

What’s everyone’s thoughts on the nature of this specific lie, ie fabricating a snr military rank (tbh alarm bells sounded for me when I heard this as the lie was the person was the rank of lieutenant as an entry level role with no military experience at all and with less than 6 weeks training, hadnt had the welcoming ceremony yet had been issued with the full uniform, that he was wearing, the uniform also looked old) to some one on their death bed? Even if the lie wasn’t being maintained now? I still think this kind of lie is disgraceful, especially because it had been attempted by the individual before

It's disgusting and you need to report it to your nearest military police team.

@TirisfalPumpkin

If my knowledge of the army is correct, you would be a lieutenant straight out of officer training even with no prior experience, but people would presumably know you were going that route - you wouldn’t get ‘bumped up’ if you joined as a recruit.

Maintaining the lie with others is really weird and speaks of some sort of grandiose mental health problem.

But this person is claiming they don’t need to do officer training, they are entering straight into the position of lieutenant after high test scores.

My mum was very houseproud and was in the process of sorting out some of my late dad's books when she fell ill and was admitted to hospital. She was there for three weeks and came home to a hospital bed and never went upstairs again. One of the things she was very focused on in her final days was that her room upstairs was "such a mess". I told her I'd had them all picked up by the charity shop (her plan), while she was in hospital, even though I hadn't (yet).
Did I lie to her? Yes. Am I at peace with what I did? Yes.

Sorry @titchy the person was in ITU who obviously was v poorly but at the time in which the lie was told (in full uniform) they’d turned a corner and the consultants were even talking of a discharge to ward plan and the long road to recovery. There was a sharp decline in the following days. So the person was v unwell and previously concerns about them not making it had been mentioned by the medical team but at that moment it was looking v positive (as far as ITU goes)

@Nc4post99

What’s everyone’s thoughts on the nature of this specific lie, ie fabricating a snr military rank (tbh alarm bells sounded for me when I heard this as the lie was the person was the rank of lieutenant as an entry level role with no military experience at all and with less than 6 weeks training, hadnt had the welcoming ceremony yet had been issued with the full uniform, that he was wearing, the uniform also looked old) to some one on their death bed? Even if the lie wasn’t being maintained now? I still think this kind of lie is disgraceful, especially because it had been attempted by the individual before

Given everything you’ve said, the lying about this to someone on their deathbed is almost the least worst part. Not that it’s not bad, but maintaining the lie to others will be far more damaging overall.

If they had lied to say they had got a position after doing the training to please the Dieing person (PhD example up thread) but had told other people the actual truth that's one thing.... but to get a uniform, rock up in it and then carry on the lie it's a different level.

Are you sure they are not in the process at the moment and hoping that's the outcome? Is this person in the forces in a different position?

@Nc4post99

What’s everyone’s thoughts on the nature of this specific lie, ie fabricating a snr military rank (tbh alarm bells sounded for me when I heard this as the lie was the person was the rank of lieutenant as an entry level role with no military experience at all and with less than 6 weeks training, hadnt had the welcoming ceremony yet had been issued with the full uniform, that he was wearing, the uniform also looked old) to some one on their death bed? Even if the lie wasn’t being maintained now? I still think this kind of lie is disgraceful, especially because it had been attempted by the individual before

Honestly, it sounds like the beginning of a true crime podcast.

I would lie to a dying person without hesitation and make promises I had no intention of keeping provided it didn't affect others and it made the person't passing easier....but that's not what you are talking about here.

I think lying to comfort someone while they are dying is fine. I caring for a dying woman with dementia who often asked in her last few days if her son was alright. He has sadly died a couple of years earlier, but she couldn't remember that. I told her he was fine. I think it would have been cruel to tell her the truth.

But the situation you are describing is not OK because the lie is not for the comfort of the dying person.

That's awful!! I definitely think lying to someone for their own benefit when there's no way to do anything else kindly because they're about to die so there's no more time - like not bringing up bad news, not reminding someone of harsh facts if they have dementia etc is noble but lying to them for your own gain is despicable. They're literally dying and he's trying to manipulate them, that's disgusting.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_impostor

Ita wiki.. But it has some info there

I think in your case the person is obviously wrong and doing it for thier own benefit - which is despicable and a bit deranged.
But in my own family there is a situation which makes me uncomforatbel.
My mother is very elderly (99) and frail, she lives in a care home.
near the end of last year, her younger brother died. She was very fond of him. Some of my close relatives declared that my mother should not be told about this death. One of my sisters and I felt that she should be told, but we went along with the consensus. However almost a year later my Mum is still alive and this lie has been maintained, I live a long way away, and due to my own ill health and covid haven't seen my mum since my uncle died. We are in touch by mail and thorough staff at the home. But it all feels pretty weird to keep such a big thing secret, on the other hand I can see that they feel the shock of the news would harm her. However she has in the past coped with the death of her husband and one of her children so although physically frail, I feel she is mentally, if not tough then resigned to reality. I feel she is probably wondering why her brother didn't contact her on her birthday this year.

So yeah - lies can be tricky things - and can start with good intentions but get a bit convoluted and have to be compounded by further lies and it all gets kind of strange.