Lying to someone on their deathbed?

[Nc4post99]

What’s everyone’s take on lying to someone on their death bed? As a general principle and then in this specific incident listed below.

My personal view is it’s wrong, but what about the pretence to make the dying person happy? I still feel this is wrong and shows a lack of respect for the dying person and there are many other ways to leave a loved one with fond memories than a lie.

Person in question lies to a family member on their death bed about gaining a snr military position straight out the gate, bought from eBay the kit to sell the lie. Person In question did not know the family member would die, it v much came out of the blue. Now the family member has passed, the person in question is maintaining the lie and wearing the uniform etc.

Person in question has a history of being a pathological liar and weaving these sort of intricate tales to vulnerable elderly family members and financially gaining due how how ‘proud’ they were of him. I’m talking in the £000s, cars bought etc not a £5/£10 here and there.

@Yogawankonobi

Surely if he lied to get money out of a dying relative you would go straight to the police? Or have I misunderstood?

This is a little white lie to bring comfort, this was for financial gain and he has continued the lie.

Does he truly believe this? Do you think he could be psychotic? We often see people who believe they are high up in the military or government.

@Yogawankonobi I have no hard proof that this lie was created for the purpose of scamming money from the deceased in life, it’s a strong suspicion based on some v elaborate and costly purchases that the person in question simply wouldn’t have been able to afford. The deceased was an incredibly generous person and especially in light of what he would define as accomplishments but they were also vulnerable.

I am lying to DH. He is terminally ill, we didn't expect to get this Christmas together but at the moment he is well enough to think we will so today I made him a Christmas cake. I have made it with almonds on the top (a bit like a Dundee cake) because he loves a cake with nuts but he doesn't know that I don't so I have lied and said that I do. I am sure, that when the time comes, I will need to tell him a lie or two but I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

You either do the training or you don't it's very simple and we don't do "favours" he does indeed sound like a Walter and this can be quite dangerous in some situations!

If he's banging on about military intelligence etc, normal security clearance takes about 3 months, the higher one can take up to a year..... I would eat my own uniform if anyone in intelligence would take "someone at risk pending vetting". Its just not how we work.

Easy thing to do..... Ask him for his service number ask him to show you his Attestation certificate.... (the one he gets when he takes the oath)

Do the other relatives feel vulnerable and would they want you to either intervene or post a thread on MN about this?
The thing about Walter Mitty characters is that you can't 'shame' them into changing their behaviour. They are completely invested in their lies. Your only recourse is to contact the executor of the estate and to share your concerns with the relatives who you feel are vulnerable. Don't allow this to take your time, taint your memories and suck your life.

Clearly I am humouring myself. The RAF wear a light blue shirt.... The navy wear either a dark blue shirt n trousers or white shirt and black trousers.

We lied to MIL when she was very ill and in hospital. We told her her elderly dog was fine and living with her daughter (my SIL). In reality, we'd had to have the dog put down as it was very old, in really bad health, almost blind, and probably wouldn't have coped with the move.

MIL subsequently moved from the hospital and into a nursing home, and died without ever knowing the dog had died before her.

It was the right thing to do.

[quote AdmiralCain]@knittingaddict I don't understand why that situation makes you so angry? what works for my family wont work for yours. My Dad was more than OK with it, you wouldn't be OK with it, different strokes for different folks.
My Dad was a priest and regularly held confession and absolved people of their sins and gave countless hundreds upon hundreds of last rites. So he was OK with that. I hope that makes you feel Less angry. My Dad had done things in the last few years of his life he was ashamed of (Nothing to do with the priesthood or stealing money or little kids) and apologized to me and said he was sorry if he'd let me down. I told him there was nothing to forgive. We had that relationship so I knew it was ok to talk to him.[/quote]
Well I'm a Christian too and put a great value on honesty and integrity. I would take a dim view of my children saving up their confessions for when I am dying, thank you very much.

I would be ok with my adult children telling me stuff as and when they felt like it, although see no reason why they should. I'm not God or their confessor.

I think most people would want a peaceful end spent woth those we love and enjoying our last moments together. If my children can't manage that I'm coming back and haunting them.

With regard to your example, that's completely wrong. I think you're right that this person is a pathological liar in the actual sense of the word.

However I don't think in a more general sense that lying to someone on their deathbed is wrong, if it brings them comfort. Telling someone you forgive them, they're a good person, that you will always take care of their beloved Fluffy is a good and kind thing to do - even if it's not strictly true (or not true at all!)

Yes, it was very wrong of him. He's a con artist, that's the long and short of it. Serving military personnel & veterans take a dim view of crap like this, understandably, and some like to expose people like him.

Little white lies to a terminally I'll person, I think, are understandable and shouldn't be condemned outright, but this goes way beyond that.

@2Two

Surely it's something that can be proved or disproved very easily? The individual concerned would have official letters etc, and there would be official records. If family members aren't sure, they could simply ask for authorisation to check*

I’m closely related to this individual and have asked based on actually a very embarrassing incident at work, when despite my doubts, shared this story of a recent family accomplishment (context of a work convo around families and stuff) only to be pulled up later and told what I said didn’t sound true. So I asked the relative, didn’t accuse, even reference the work convo, or I ou doubt in the story but they buckled down said they couldn’t find the letter and just sent me through a pic of the shirt badges.

Other close family members (there are only 2) do have doubts but want to believe the individual is telling the truth, and even IF there is an exaggeration (won’t acknowledge it’s a lie, but they are old and quite gullible) think it would have been done for the ‘right reasons’. As the lie is being maintained and further embellished I don’t believe this is the case and want to sever all contact. This will inevitably cause a huge family rift and ill probably seem like the bad guy, but I do abhor liars (not white lies as a lot of people have mentioned upthread but this sort of insidious lie)

disregard for the dying individual who was a very honest person and would be ‘proud’ no matter what.

Well, except that you said they financially gained from them because they said they were high ranking military. Doesn’t sound like they’d be proud no matter what.

@CombatBarbie

Clearly I am humouring myself. The RAF wear a light blue shirt.... The navy wear either a dark blue shirt n trousers or white shirt and black trousers.

This is what I mean, it doesn’t add up. I had no idea about the shirt thing- thanks for clarification!

Would the oath be part of the ceremony thing ? (Sorry if that sound pejorative I don’t know the proper names) @CombatBarbie. He’s said he hasn’t had one yet if that’s the case, which I why I can’t wrap my head around how he’s still working as a waiter yet going to intelligence briefings.

@BoredZelda

disregard for the dying individual who was a very honest person and would be ‘proud’ no matter what.

Well, except that you said they financially gained from them because they said they were high ranking military. Doesn’t sound like they’d be proud no matter what.

As you don’t know the deceased or our relationships with them. It’s not the case. The deceased was proud of me and I’m not a high ranking military person, I’m middle management in the corporate world. Not quite the same in terms of glory but they were proud of the accomplishments I had made in my life. It would have been the same for this individual, if they had wanted to share good memories or news about upcoming nuptials for instance.

The deceased was generous and vulnerable and loved things with any sort of pomp. They were the kind of person if you asked to borrow a tenner they’d give you £50 and say don’t worry about it and I’m not talking just close family, in all walks of life. This generosity was v easily exploited by this individual. This would be taken to next level with anything with pomp and ceremony, a mention of a ball, a graduation, a wedding etc they were a sucker for tradition, suddenly hundreds and hundreds of pounds would flood your way. Breaks my heart that this nature was exploited of someone who was so poorly

You should wait for a family do or gathering and get a few of you to turn up in similar military regalia. That would flummox the perpetrator, you could make him General of the family regiment and present him with the biggest liar medal!

I worked with a Walter Mitty. The person who was hurt most was their friend who went round their relatives, who tried to find where the lies started and ended; and became fixated on finding a 'why'. It impacted their life and dented their relationships with other people.
You have to ask yourself, is this person worth a family rift? Is anyone worth a family rift when you are all, presumably, still grieving?
I can see why you were embarrassed by the work conversation but in a matter of prioritising, it sounds as though dramatically cutting off contact is going to hurt everyone else you care about. The fantasist won't care. Although they may milk it for sympathy if it's beneficial to them. You can scale back contact without a showdown. You've voiced your concerns to others so you have fulfilled your obligations. Don't make this the focus of your loved one's passing.

Don’t get me wrong @ElizaDarcysDeeds you’re 100% correct, simply put it’s not worth the headache. This person however is my sibling, the person they lied to was my father, luckily we were not willed anything and thankfully my mother is the sole beneficiary. My sibling and I already have limited contact due to the sheer amount of violence he subjected me to as a child and unfortunately a young adult too. I do however wish to stop the pretence of caring and there being any bond, I’m not talking a showdown or even a confrontation, although my sibling does degrade me about being a failure compared to them at any given opportunity (irony not lost on me here) but the pretence of Christmas gifts, birthday gifts, attending their wedding for instance, i do not want this person around my children either due to their inherently dangerous nature and their pathological lies and the drama it brings. I’m too old for it. It happened a lot, sibling would lie about such and such, get into trouble get found out and parents would call me distraught.

Knowing that my sibling defrauded my terminally ill father is very hard to process. Hence my
Post as to is this sort of lie ever acceptable and when it’s being carried on post death too? Curious to hear from other people around this and given the comments I can tell I’m not In the minority. I’ve informed my mother and grandmother (DFs mother) about some of my doubts but they very much want to believe it is true. I am concerned my sibling will exploit them as he has done so previously.

The oath is taken before you start any training so he will def have this. If he's actually working for them and attending meetings then he will have an ID card.... At the very least a paper version called a chit in lieu.... Ask to see them.... He must have one in order to gain access to any military establishments.

If he says these meetings are online then he must have a military laptop to access teams etc..... The system has a very distinct name.

So what's your service number?
Can I see your Oath, my friend said she has hers displayed in her bathroom.
What's your military email address..... Its format is specific.
Ask him what JPA is 😂

What's his hair like, short back n sides...? Although we are powering through gender equality, there are still standards.

His hair is def not short back and sides, it’s short but a typical short male hair cut, not like captain Dan from forest Gump (when he’s in the military)

This is the picture he sent me as his ‘proof’. He said they get given a spare set of badges.

bloodywhitecat sorry to hear that

@CombatBarbie 😂 at the JPA comment. If you know, you know.

[quote ThreeB]@CombatBarbie 😂 at the JPA comment. If you know, you know. [/quote]
Well. If he doesn't.... I rest my case 😂

OP, if he cannot provide any proof aside some insignia that's not even been sewn onto uniform then he's a very deluded man....id love to meet him!!!

That particular lie is wrong. It would be fine to say that you were recovering well from a treatment you’d been having or that you loved their hair do. The person has got enough on their plate with dying, no need to be mean.

Total Walter Mitty fantasist, those are indeed Royal Navy Lieutenant epaulettes, which anyone can buy online for probably about a tenner.

As you don’t know the deceased or our relationships with them

Was basing it on your own description.

@CombatBarbie what sort of things should I look out for from A given JPA to see if it’s fraudulent, I mean that insofar as I’ve no idea what it even means so he could say to me 123456789 is my JPA and I’d be none the wiser xx