Page 5 | You're not going out wearing that

bigbaggyeyes · 2021-10-10T08:47:41+00:00

A quick aibu. My 13 yr old dd is going out shopping (big indoor retail park) with her friends for the first time today. She wants to wear a short, strappy dress with trainers and a zip up hoodie type jacket, dress is similar to the one in the link below, but white with blue flowers on it. She's tells me the usual 'everyone is wearing the same' but I'm not convinced. Aibu to tell her to put a pair of jeans on? Or should I bite the bullet and let her wear what she wants? https://m.shein.co.uk/SHEIN-Crisscross-Back-Ruched-Dress-p-3026908-cat-1727.html?scici=Search~~SuggestionSearch~~1~~Strappy%20White%20Dress~~SMSearchWordsSuggest~~0

SoftSheen · 10/10/2021 11:34

If you’ve been teaching them that a certain kind of dress or lots of makeup equals consent, then you’re right to be worried

It's not just about consent though. An 17/18 year old young man flirting with a girl who appears to be 16/17 is not doing anything wrong (assuming she is happy to have the attention). If the girl is actually 13 then it's definitely not fine, even if she is happy.

MintJulia · 10/10/2021 11:35

She's 13. I'm sure she looks lovely but who bought her that dress? It's ok-ish for a beach or summer dinner with family on holiday but not somewhere where no-one is fending of the legions of creeps who will follow her around.

Perhaps you could explain that while she looks lovely, she needs to stay in a group of at least three or four friends, and where there is cctv.

That dress will be seen by many men as an open invitation. Sad but that's the reality.

Areyouhappy · 10/10/2021 11:35

Rather than slut-shaming a 13 year old who simply wants to wear clothes she looks and feels good in

It's not as simple as that though is it? And this is nothing to do with puritanism. Surely we need to question why young teens want to wear this? It is because they have been bombarded from an early age with images of older teens and young women on-line wearing skimpy clothing usually driven by commerce , promotion and advertising, which is seen as cool and sexy but is driven by a largely patriarchal idea of what is desirable. At thirteen our teens often don't have the objectivity, experience, judgement or confidence to question this so it's our job as parents to challenge it on their behalf.

DameMaureen · 10/10/2021 11:36

She is 13 not 16 /17 etc - I know I am old fashioned but there is no way she would be going out in that ! I see little girls in town and you can see that many are awkward in wearing stuff like this pulling at it etc . People who are on the " women can wear what they want to and it shouldn't matter " - these things DO draw the wrong sort of attention from boys and men. I would be encouraging her to have more thought about what is suitable attire for different places and it seems you did do @bigbaggyeyes so good on you . I can remember getting the same comment by my mother but things are different now and not in a good way .

CaptSkippy · 10/10/2021 11:39

@Bizawit

It's fuck all to do with slut shaming, it's about not participating in sexualising of children

Who’s sexualising her though? You are, and then telling her she should cover up. That’s the definition of slut shaming.

The fact that you are even using the term "slut shaming" means you consider her to be/dress like a "slut".

Let's not be naive here. We all know outfits like these are meant to create sex appeal, except that 13 year old don't fully understand the implications of that yet. This is where the adult needs to step in. When they are adults themselves they can make a (hopefully) fully informed decision about how they dress themselves.

But we also know you would not wear something like this to work, for example. We know that clothes make a statement and NO that is not the same thing as saying "she was asking for it by being dressed like that."

SoftSheen · 10/10/2021 11:40

Let's not be naive here. We all know outfits like these are meant to create sex appeal, except that 13 year old don't fully understand the implications of that yet. This is where the adult needs to step in. When they are adults themselves they can make a (hopefully) fully informed decision about how they dress themselves

^^This exactly.

parentinghelp1 · 10/10/2021 11:42

@CaptSkippy completely agree

Would you wear that dress to the office? No you wouldn't because you know what kind of image it is trying to create.

This is in part to do with her age but also generally the connotation that come with a dress like that. It is sexual, stop trying to deny it.

DameMaureen · 10/10/2021 11:42

@MrsMcGarry

I genuinely cannot believe the level of Puritanism here.

Rather than slut-shaming a 13 year old who simply wants to wear clothes she looks and feels good in, talk to your sons about not being entitled to grope women or girls no matter what they are wearing.

Why are we surprised that so many girls grow up to be women in controlling relationships when they grow up with parents who think they have a right to control what they wear.

Your last sentence - don't be ridiculous 🙄 Parents are there to guide and socialise their children with love and care - not to let them do whatever they want . At 13 a child needs that .

DameMaureen · 10/10/2021 11:44

@DameMaureen

She is 13 not 16 /17 etc - I know I am old fashioned but there is no way she would be going out in that ! I see little girls in town and you can see that many are awkward in wearing stuff like this pulling at it etc . People who are on the " women can wear what they want to and it shouldn't matter " - these things DO draw the wrong sort of attention from boys and men. I would be encouraging her to have more thought about what is suitable attire for different places and it seems you did do *@bigbaggyeyes* so good on you . I can remember getting the same comment by my mother but things are different now and not in a good way .

and I wasn't wearing clothes like this but hot pants - shorts .

JoborPlay · 10/10/2021 11:44

I can't see an issue with it - making fashion/ outfit faux Pas is a right of passage. I remember shopping in white hot pants, crop top and platforms. I looked horrendous but thought I looked amazing and whilst my parents told me it was a ridiculous outfit didn't 'forbid' it, which would have just made the whole thing worse (and I'd probably have put it in my bag and changed when in town).

toocold54 · 10/10/2021 11:45

Let's not be naive here. We all know outfits like these are meant to create sex appeal, except that 13 year old don't fully understand the implications of that yet.

So if you have a 5 year old daughter and you dress her in a dress or shorts you are trying to create sex appeal?

If OP DDs wore jeans and a strap top which showed her arms or belly which used to be the fashion, would that be ok?
Or are girls just not allowed to show any skin?

MissCruellaDeVil · 10/10/2021 11:45

That's a party outfit not a day out shopping!

Kuachui · 10/10/2021 11:49

To be honest I think she should be able too.

I don't think kids should be sexualised based on what they wear and should be able to express themselves as they like as long as no underwear/bits are showing.

The only thing that could be wrong in an adults eyes is that her legs are on show? But see how ridiculous that sounds, we should tell our children to not show there legs?? They don't see why we feel that way because it's an adult problem. We are the problem not whta they wear and not them. Teach them to be as safe as they can be and let them wear what they want.

CaptSkippy · 10/10/2021 11:50

@toocold54

Let's not be naive here. We all know outfits like these are meant to create sex appeal, except that 13 year old don't fully understand the implications of that yet.

So if you have a 5 year old daughter and you dress her in a dress or shorts you are trying to create sex appeal?

If OP DDs wore jeans and a strap top which showed her arms or belly which used to be the fashion, would that be ok?
Or are girls just not allowed to show any skin?

You would put a five year old in that? What are you trying to do? Serve her up a sacrificial lamb to pedophiles?

Bizawit · 10/10/2021 11:51

The fact that you are even using the term "slut shaming" means you consider her to be/dress like a "slut"

Not at all. I don’t think you understand what the term “slut shaming” means. It means dressing/ behaving in ways that OTHERS perceive to be transgressing sexual boundaries, and shaming them for it/ teaching them they need to modify their behaviour to conform to the sexual mores of others. The objection that people have to this dress is that it is too sexual for. 13 year old to wear.

I do agree with you that a 13 year old might not fully understand the implications of dressing in a way that might be viewed by others as sexually appealing, and a conversation about that is probably warranted / healthy. But this definitely shouldn’t take the form of “you’re not going out in that” / prohibiting her from wearing something she feels good in. That’s teaching her she’s responsible for the letchy behaviour of predatory men and it promotes shame, victim blaming and rape culture

DameMaureen · 10/10/2021 11:52

@Kuachui

To be honest I think she should be able too.

I don't think kids should be sexualised based on what they wear and should be able to express themselves as they like as long as no underwear/bits are showing.

The only thing that could be wrong in an adults eyes is that her legs are on show? But see how ridiculous that sounds, we should tell our children to not show there legs?? They don't see why we feel that way because it's an adult problem. We are the problem not whta they wear and not them. Teach them to be as safe as they can be and let them wear what they want.

but her bits will be showing not just legs ...

FreeBritnee · 10/10/2021 11:52

Teach your sons about consent. Makeup and dresses are not an invitation for sex.

I’ve literally just said that I’m doing exactly that. Teaching my sons about consent.

What I’ve also got to teach them is to spot children dressed as a woman much older than their years and potentially also telling them they are far older. That’s a little bit more tricky to navigate. But don’t worry I will also get that point across very thoroughly.

Kuachui · 10/10/2021 11:56

@damemaureen I don't know about you but I have never seen a kids bits because her dress was too short and if it was so short her private areas could be seen then I would expect biker shorts underneath but thats apparently still too sexual because legs still show.

Kuachui · 10/10/2021 11:57

@captskippy you wouldn't dress a 5 year old in a dress and trainers with a hoodie over the top? You think that's wrong?

Nevermind the dress she linked because that's not even the dress BUT you wouldn't accept a 5 year old wearing a strap dress with trainers and a jacket?

Lucked · 10/10/2021 11:58

That’s what the

Kuachui · 10/10/2021 11:58

Also can I say wearing that dress would be like wearing a strappy vest and shorts with trainers with a jacket over the top. Bet no one questions that though.

Personally if it is too short then bike shorts are the way to go

99victoria · 10/10/2021 11:59

I'm going against the grain here. I can imagine your daughter will look lovely in that with a hoodie and trainers. It's no different than wearing a pair of shorts and a strappy t-shirt surely? She is 'dressing down' the outfit by adding the trainers and hoodie so it actually isn't a 'party outfit' as some pps have said.

How sad that we are judging our young girls all the time instead of celebrating their confidence. This will come back to bite you OP (and I say that as a mother of 2 grown-up daughters)

DameMaureen · 10/10/2021 12:03

[quote Kuachui]@damemaureen I don't know about you but I have never seen a kids bits because her dress was too short and if it was so short her private areas could be seen then I would expect biker shorts underneath but thats apparently still too sexual because legs still show.[/quote]
You haven't seen little girls out in skimpy clothing like this with budding breasts and looking that cross between I want to be grown up but at the same time I feel so self conscious ? It's a horrible sight and I feel so sorry for them that they have this pressure to do so

CaptSkippy · 10/10/2021 12:04

@Bizawit

The fact that you are even using the term "slut shaming" means you consider her to be/dress like a "slut"

Not at all. I don’t think you understand what the term “slut shaming” means. It means dressing/ behaving in ways that OTHERS perceive to be transgressing sexual boundaries, and shaming them for it/ teaching them they need to modify their behaviour to conform to the sexual mores of others. The objection that people have to this dress is that it is too sexual for. 13 year old to wear.

I do agree with you that a 13 year old might not fully understand the implications of dressing in a way that might be viewed by others as sexually appealing, and a conversation about that is probably warranted / healthy. But this definitely shouldn’t take the form of “you’re not going out in that” / prohibiting her from wearing something she feels good in. That’s teaching her she’s responsible for the letchy behaviour of predatory men and it promotes shame, victim blaming and rape culture

Don't be condescending. I understand the term all too well and I was around for its inception. But I disagree with its use entirely. Under no circumtances is it right to call anyone that, least of all girls and women.

And I am not talking about what other percieve. I am talking about self-objectification. I am talking about the way girls learn to look in the mirror and look at themselves through the eyes of how hypothetical men might look at them. They learn this from a young age and it is related to how others perceive them, but it is also a topic so complex that it deserves its own attention. That is what I am trying to focus on.

This distinction is so importent. The arguments that "clothes are not consent", "girls should dress however they want" and "why are you sexualizing girls" are merely red herrings in this particular case. This is about how she perceives herself through the eyes of others in her adolescent brain and how she is groomed by the social media culture she is inudated with on a daily basis.

Thatsplentyjack · 10/10/2021 12:12

@Hydrate

It looks like something older teens 18 or so, may wear, not your dd's age. I admit, I am not a fan of it, looks flimsy and cheap and tacky. She was smart not to wear it, though mom jeans sounds a wee bit extreme! 😂 Maybe take her out to choose an age appropriate version of her vision, with better quality materials.

Why is it OK for 18 year olds but not 13 year olds?