To be astounded people are defending John Barrowman

[GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr]

Or that they ever did, but particularly in the current climate.

Defending/diminishing the actions of a man whose colleagues have repeatedly said has exposed himself at work? Really? If he worked at Sainsbury's and did it there would it be ok too?

Some of the excuses I've heard include he's gay so he didn't fancy them, what's the problem/it was just a laugh/he's in showbusiness, it's different and so on. No. It's not. Assault is assault and dismissing it or justifying it, or implying that women need to lighten up and get a sense of humour, normalises his actions and validates others who do similar - it's just messing about/a bit of fun, after all.

I cannot believe that anyone would think it's ok to slap your penis on a colleague's body while at work, but apparently some people do. Bonkers.

Paul Nicholas was renowned for flashing his dick in his dressing room at young cast members.

@trancepants

I loved Buffy, Angel, Firefly and really enjoyed some of Joss Whedon's comic book runs. When I first heard about his treatment of Charisma Carpenter, I took her comments about how it happened but it was fine, at face value. It niggled at me, I know that an actor in her position has to still play nice with increasingly powerful producers. But I didn't let it put me off him.

However when I read his wife's open letter a year or so later, that was it. Her letter suddenly meant that all the niggles I'd had about how he treated Carpenter turned into the contempt his behaviour deserved. It also made me reconsider stories I'd heard since the 90s that Sarah Michelle Gellar was too up herself to hang out with Joss and the cast. When descriptions of his behaviour instead mean that Gellar was just never happy to play his power games. And since then more actors have spoken about how he really is and Carpenter has felt free to say how he really affected her.

It's a shame. I love his work. It meant a lot to me. But he's an awful person.

Joss wasn’t allowed to be alone with Michelle Trachtenberg on set, which is a huge red flag that so many people ignored.

SMG - I’ve worked with her, she is not a nice person. At all. Nothing to do with Joss. She was mean long before that.

[quote TaraR2020]@Clocktopus creepy blinds about DT?[/quote]
David ‘Ten-Inch’ was his nickname for a very long time and he’s very good mates with JB

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4238999-John-Barrowman-put-his-dick-on-co-stars-shoulder

This was the previous thread PP where the OP wanted a petition starting several times over but nobody took them up on it.

He has been let go from Dancing On Ice, it was reported today. I assume that's why the whole sorry saga has been dredged up again.

I’m not that surprised some people are defending him but I agree with you that it’s ridiculous they are. It really doesn’t matter that he’s gay- he behaved how he did to exert power and degrade his target- like basically all sexual predators do.

You would be amazed how some women laugh and tolerate really creepy stuff if the guy is either a celeb OR a good looking guy. If it was some 60 year old not particularly attractive bloke who works in the council offices or something- then my personal feeling is there would be far less of ‘oh it was just a jape’ etc

I used to work with a gay guy who was like this with women - not quite as extreme but not far off. He used to tried to incite women to flash him their bits too. He defo wasn’t interested in pursuing them sexually but he was certainly getting some kind of kick out if it.

YANBU 100%. JB deserves to be axed from all performances, shows etc. for his past sexual misconduct, regardless of whether he apologised or not. Apparently he has now restricted his Twitter to his follower fans only -- which unfortunately includes many women (not me).

It pains me to think that THE Captain Jack Harkness will not be back on our screens, but honestly the most painful part of this for me is seeing WOMEN defend him and talking about how sweet and funny and gay he is. If women continue to condone and rationalise such non-consensual sexual acts, perverts like JB will continue to thrust their bloody dicks in women's faces with impunity. That's the first step to rape..."Oh he was just having a bit of fun!" they'll say.

@FloconDeNeige

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Was the gay part really necessary?

I hope The Magnificant Victoria wood was ok with her song being used in that way?!

Oh for God’s sake, why was my comment deleted? It was entirely factual. He’s nasty; fact. He’s gay; fact. He’s a prick; fact.

Women’s safety comes before the feelings of men, gay or otherwise. It’s absolutely fucking sickening that he and others are hiding behind their sexuality as a way of assaulting women without reproach. Whoever reported my comment needs a serious word with themselves.

@Handsoffstrikesagain

It was not used as a slur.

Stop keep saying him being gay is irrelevant - it is absolutely relevant and a central tenet of the whole saga. If he was heterosexual, he’d have been challenged on this disgusting behaviour much before.

He deliberately used the fact that he’s gay to wilfully assault and abuse women. He hid behind ‘it’s not sexual harassment as I don’t fancy them’ and if that didn’t work, thought he had the homophobia card to threaten his victims into silence and submission.

[quote FloconDeNeige]@Handsoffstrikesagain

It was not used as a slur.

Stop keep saying him being gay is irrelevant - it is absolutely relevant and a central tenet of the whole saga. If he was heterosexual, he’d have been challenged on this disgusting behaviour much before.

He deliberately used the fact that he’s gay to wilfully assault and abuse women. He hid behind ‘it’s not sexual harassment as I don’t fancy them’ and if that didn’t work, thought he had the homophobia card to threaten his victims into silence and submission.[/quote]
This.

A straight man would not have got away with this for so long

@FloconDeNeige

Oh for God’s sake, why was my comment deleted? It was entirely factual. He’s nasty; fact. He’s gay; fact. He’s a prick; fact.

Women’s safety comes before the feelings of men, gay or otherwise. It’s absolutely fucking sickening that he and others are hiding behind their sexuality as a way of assaulting women without reproach. Whoever reported my comment needs a serious word with themselves.

Because you called him a nasty gay prick. You can be critical of his behaviour without being homophobic about it.

My husband had a mate at uni who liked to show people his genitalia when drunk. In his case though this was largely his own male mates who just found it weird or funny and never to a woman and never having physical contact with anyone else. He was a very nice lad and I did not get the vibe it was about sexual power or humiliating others but rather intended as a a strange joke at his own expense. So I can see in very specific contexts that might be possible - still not ideal as it may make others uncomfortable and provides cover to others to do the same in a way that is intentionally sexual/threatening.

However, JB's actions seem to be indefensible. His sexuality has nothing to do with it. From descriptions he was doing it to cause embarrassment and have power over someone else (male or female) and that's really rather horrible. A sexual "joke" at someone else's expense is never okay, whether it arouses the perpetrator or not.

It wasn’t homophobic, it was a factual. He deliberately used the fact that he is gay to behave in such a disgusting way. Thus it’s an entirely reasonable way to describe him.

His sexuality has nothing to do with it

His sexuality had everything to do with it - it’s literally the main point of the entire story.

@FloconDeNeige

His sexuality has nothing to do with it

His sexuality had everything to do with it - it’s literally the main point of the entire story.

The main story is that he is flashing people without their consent. Plenty of straight men do it too.

@FloconDeNeige

It wasn’t homophobic, it was a factual. He deliberately used the fact that he is gay to behave in such a disgusting way. Thus it’s an entirely reasonable way to describe him.

Of I called a black person a black price it might be factual but it would still be racist.

In context the women in question don't seem to have found it upsetting or threatening, and I do think that makes a big difference to how I'd approach it and how I think of Barrowman

But why? He didn't know before he did it that they wouldn't be upset. Why should how it's dealt with depend on how distressed the woman was rather than how inappropriate the behaviour was? What of women who may have been distressed by his behaviour but kept quiet because everyone else insisted it was harmless and non-threatening.

@Crikeyalmighty

You would be amazed how some women laugh and tolerate really creepy stuff if the guy is either a celeb OR a good looking guy. If it was some 60 year old not particularly attractive bloke who works in the council offices or something- then my personal feeling is there would be far less of ‘oh it was just a jape’ etc

This is my experience. I had a friend at uni who would target anyone he wanted (primarily men but women too) and whilst to begin with His behaviour was normal enough, occaisonally overstepping the mark, I had a year out and went back and found he was much much worse, so much so he tried it on with me, and no I don't mean just a pass. I flipped at him (PTSD) and he defended his "right" to have who he wanted, regardless of what they wanted. That was it for our friendship as I'd made very clear from day one it would be. He spent ages trying to flirt his way back into our friendship but it was done.

These days (decades later) his looks have gone. But his behaviour hasn't. He's had several prosecutions now. What before was considered to be "just fun" is now seen for what it is. He can no longer flirt his way out of situations because his looks have faded and people see him for what he is.

It's sad, he's nothing like the person I knew.

Long before JB achieved TV fame he boasted about mooning people from his theatre dressing room window. Usually people waiting at the stage door for programme autographs.