To be astounded people are defending John Barrowman

[GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr]

Or that they ever did, but particularly in the current climate.

Defending/diminishing the actions of a man whose colleagues have repeatedly said has exposed himself at work? Really? If he worked at Sainsbury's and did it there would it be ok too?

Some of the excuses I've heard include he's gay so he didn't fancy them, what's the problem/it was just a laugh/he's in showbusiness, it's different and so on. No. It's not. Assault is assault and dismissing it or justifying it, or implying that women need to lighten up and get a sense of humour, normalises his actions and validates others who do similar - it's just messing about/a bit of fun, after all.

I cannot believe that anyone would think it's ok to slap your penis on a colleague's body while at work, but apparently some people do. Bonkers.

@GoodnightGrandma

Ah, so he’s doing it to keep the morale of the company up. That’s ok then 😡😡😡😡

Strangely enough I don't think a man showing me his genitals would make my morale one iota better.

I've always assumed that I'm a terrible judge of character, because my opinion of a lot of people goes against what the people around me say.

Over the past few years, I've come to think that maybe I'm actually a very astute judge of character, but I tend to push aside my own instinctive reactions and assume that I'm wrong. Time and time again, someone who I never warmed to has been shown to be exactly what I thought they were. They weren't all predators, obviously (although a fair few were). I think that a lot of people need to listen more to their reactions to others, and not worry so much about those reactions being popular.

John Barrowman is on the list of celebrities who make me shudder. I did once mention it to someone else, but they accused me of being homophobic, so I never said anything about it after that. Saville had a "cover" too. He gave me the creeps in the 70's, but I was told off for saying so, because "he did so much for charity". I am not for one moment calling JB a predatory paedophile, but the common factor is a sort of deflective device in place, which points to the much more comfortable conclusion that the person speaking out is wrong, mean or prejudiced.

Recognising that people who have given us pleasure can also have much darker aspects to their personalities is an uncomfortable thing, so I can almost understand why people minimise and defend celebrities like JB, but I still think it's shitty behaviour, understandable or not.

If you have an industry where people get naked and use their sexuality for money, I'd expect that it might be seen as fairly non-controversial that some yahoo thinks unexpectedly flashing people is a good joke.

All the more so when it's an industry where booze and drugs are common, there is a lot of money around, and people are working long hours away from home and there can be a fair amount of intimacy.

@FuckingFabulous

I have been groped and sexually assaulted by a comedian. One whose heyday was in the 80s and 90s. He certainly felt more than entitled to do what he did, and he did it very quickly. I shouted "hey!" and he stopped, grinned at me and kept talking bollocks. My friend and I were absolutely stunned. A member of his crew came to speak to us and he was so apologetic and concerned and said that he does this all the time, everyone who works with him has always known and that they're all like it, so he advised us to decline any backstage passes or experiences we are ever offered.

I’m sorry you went through that.

What you’ve said explains why these awful things will continue to happen. Organisations are complicit and these sex offenders will continue to get away scott free. It’s a shameful reflection of the entertainment business.

QueeniesCroft

John Barrowman is on the list of celebrities who make me shudder. I did once mention it to someone else, but they accused me of being homophobic, so I never said anything about it after that. Saville had a "cover" too. He gave me the creeps in the 70's, but I was told off for saying so, because "he did so much for charity". I am not for one moment calling JB a predatory paedophile, but the common factor is a sort of deflective device in place, which points to the much more comfortable conclusion that the person speaking out is wrong, mean or prejudiced.

This is what happens when people are put in a sacred group, or sacred caste. It is like a protective shield, and their behaviour is excused, usually because they are part of this special group.

We've seen it happen many times but people always seem to fall for it or defend it. We are seeing it currently play out in the media. That's why behaviour should matter more than identity.

David Tennant and Kathryn Tate singing about JB “getting his cock out” only 9 years ago.

From 1 min 50 seconds m.youtube.com/watch?v=VrKyBIJix78

Also did it on the set of Arrow in 2014. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/arrow-season-three-spoilers-18752512.amp

Am I having a weird moment here.

I have read your exact identical opening post before, I am sure of it.

Didn't get him cancelled last time so trying again?

He apologised in 2008

“With the benefit of hindsight, I understand that upset may have been caused by my exuberant behavior and I have apologized for this previously,” he said, referring to an apology he issued in 2008 after he pulled down his pants during an interview.”

Yet he was still doing it in 2014 on the set of Arrow. He new it was wrong, he apologised and then carried on doing it. What does that tell you?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/514256/John-Barrowman-naked-Arrow-Season-3/amp

Also Lorraine in 2021 m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj4A6vdfPxU

*knew

There are quite a few blind gossip items about DT, obviously to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, but he and Barrowman are (according to Barrowman) great friends and socialised together outside of filming.

JB has always come across sleazy to me. It's that you must love I'm great persona. I hate that. I work in the industry and unfortunately there is masses of creaky fuckers that people just arse lick because, you know they are famous. It's enables their behaviour and makes them think they are untouchable. And as a person who is not a celebrity and lives pay cheque to pay cheque sometimes you turn a blind eye to low level banter type behaviour because you need your job and there isn't the HR department to go to, yes you can go to the Director but me V someone mega famous they will just say off you go bye, and this is how these things carry on.

I have a friend who is always exposing himself, I don't know why and he's usually very drunk. People seem to think it's funny and encourage him to do it. It's not a night out unless xxx gets his todger out they say. Its cringeworthy, but I've been told many times I'm not fun, and running in front of cars playing chicken when drunk is fun too according to some people I work with

@Clocktopus creepy blinds about DT?

He has always given me the creeps. Now I know why. Vile man

Slightly outing but he does this to men to. He presented at a corporate event i attended a few years ago and went into the audience and lifted a man's kilt. The man very unwisely responded by calling him a 'p**f' and was roundly slated for being homophobic. No one seemed at all interested in criticising JB for exposing a man simply wearing traditional formal attire for a black tie event for his nationality

I have a friend who is always exposing himself, I don't know why and he's usually very drunk. People seem to think it's funny and encourage him to do it. It's not a night out unless xxx gets his todger out they say. Its cringeworthy, but I've been told many times I'm not fun, and running in front of cars playing chicken when drunk is fun too according to some people I work with blush

Maybe it's worth thinking about why people think it's funny, and why people do it when they are drunk?

I'm not convinced it's useful to put all of this kind of behaviour into the same category as sexual predators. It doesn't always come from the same place. And the social acceptability of nudity is not some kind of across the board thing, it has quite different connotations in an all male environment for example when people get drunked up and make stupid wisecracks about penises, or moon someone.

In those cases it's often more like toddler bathroom humour, and a transgressing social taboos is the focus, rather than sexual thrills. Sometimes it's about showing off.

When it happens in mixed company it starts to take on very different connotations, but I think that has, over the past few decades, been obscured by elements in our culture that assume we can behave in exactly the same way in single sex and mixed company with no differences, because after all it would be sexist otherwise. That's not to say people who have felt that way have all had bad intent, but it's been a rather naive approach. And it's probably emboldened some people who do get a thrill from it.

But we are seeing a cultural change around this, no matter how much people would like to say everyone always knew. There was a change to where people thought that kind of thing was ok when previously they hadn't, and now a change away from that again.

I loved Buffy, Angel, Firefly and really enjoyed some of Joss Whedon's comic book runs. When I first heard about his treatment of Charisma Carpenter, I took her comments about how it happened but it was fine, at face value. It niggled at me, I know that an actor in her position has to still play nice with increasingly powerful producers. But I didn't let it put me off him.

However when I read his wife's open letter a year or so later, that was it. Her letter suddenly meant that all the niggles I'd had about how he treated Carpenter turned into the contempt his behaviour deserved. It also made me reconsider stories I'd heard since the 90s that Sarah Michelle Gellar was too up herself to hang out with Joss and the cast. When descriptions of his behaviour instead mean that Gellar was just never happy to play his power games. And since then more actors have spoken about how he really is and Carpenter has felt free to say how he really affected her.

It's a shame. I love his work. It meant a lot to me. But he's an awful person.

My comment was in response to @lightand's post. I'd quoted it but it didn't appear.

@HebalGerbil

Am I having a weird moment here.

I have read your exact identical opening post before, I am sure of it.

Didn't get him cancelled last time so trying again?

What an odd comment. I've never posted about him before.

Are women not supposed to comment on disgusting male behaviour for fear of being accused of trying to get someone cancelled, then?

I'm not trying to 'cancel' anyone. If public opinion of JB is at rock bottom, it's his own actions that have caused it - not someone posting on MN.

I remember when he was a judge or similar on "how do you solve a problem like maria" and under the guise of showing the girls how to improvise or manage the unexpected, he grabbed each of them and snogged them without prior warning.

It made me very uncomfortable to watch.

Yes, @listentomydeclaration . I found that hard watching, too. And the women seemed to find it hard to process. Appalling.

So disappointed in David Tennant, and that song also referenced Russel emailing young men to cheer himself up, I think. I can't listen again to check. It's disgusting.

I've met him. He's a creep.

@YourFinestPantaloons

There obviously is sexual malice

And gay men are just as capable of misogyny as straight men.

YANBU it is absolutely horrible that in 2021 women are told we should put up with it and shut up.

Before I say it I will say that I know this is in no way at all in the same league as rubbing his genitals on people, but years ago I heard a version of this story :

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/doctorwho/comments/2aqvbr/currentlyreadinggjohnbarrowmanncpt_jacks/

and i thought it was gross, they would gang up on Freema, a young woman, and complete pollute her work environment making it hard for her to stay on task.

His issue is that he obviously sexually gets off on the power trip that comes from creating an environment were people have to play along with him and keep him happy just to try and do their job.