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Original poster

To be astounded people are defending John Barrowman

211 replies

GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr · 04/10/2021 07:20

Or that they ever did, but particularly in the current climate.

Defending/diminishing the actions of a man whose colleagues have repeatedly said has exposed himself at work? Really? If he worked at Sainsbury's and did it there would it be ok too?

Some of the excuses I've heard include he's gay so he didn't fancy them, what's the problem/it was just a laugh/he's in showbusiness, it's different and so on. No. It's not. Assault is assault and dismissing it or justifying it, or implying that women need to lighten up and get a sense of humour, normalises his actions and validates others who do similar - it's just messing about/a bit of fun, after all.

I cannot believe that anyone would think it's ok to slap your penis on a colleague's body while at work, but apparently some people do. Bonkers.

OP posts:
Original poster
GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr · 04/10/2021 10:59

If a colleague exposed himself to you at work, then rubbed his naked genitals on you, all without your consent, would you laugh?

If you say you would, I'm afraid I don't believe you.

@DancesWithTortoises

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CreepingDeath · 04/10/2021 11:01

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DancesWithTortoises · 04/10/2021 11:03

[quote GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr]@DancesWithTortoises what a vile comment. It's all too clear what you think of victims of sexual assault.[/quote]
Don't be ridiculous. I was speaking about John in my post, no one else, it was obvious. Really really daft to pretend otherwise.

Even dafter to pretend that's how I think. You need to up your debating skills.

Gastonia · 04/10/2021 11:05

I think there's a lot of denial going on with this stuff. If you've enjoyed watching JB over the years it's a big mental shift to see him as an offender
Absolutely this.
He's is such a charismatic person, such fun, so charming, so funny, so handsome, so popular. It's just these sort of people who get away with such behaviour, that you just wouldn't tolerate from anyone else, and manages to erode boundaries in plain sight.

lightand · 04/10/2021 11:08

@flipflopping

I think there's a lot of denial going on with this stuff. If you've enjoyed watching JB over the years (and Dr Who andTorchwood are series that people get quite personally invested in) it's a big mental shift to see him as an offender and so have to reframe all those happy and very personal memories. Hence people reach for the excuses- it doesn't count because he's gay or it was just a laugh or he apologised.

You see the same thing with older people and the behaviour of stars in the 60s and 70s. So many excuses, so much wilful ignorance. It's less about protecting the star and more about protecting your own memories and sense of self.

I agree with this. And...

If a person "likes" someone, their reactions are very different from those who didnt "like" him, or were suspect of him.

I have tried it myself as a pretend game.
Think of a celeb you very much like and one you dont. In your head, pretend the "nice" celeb is accused of something. What are your thoughts? Now pretend the celeb you dont like is accused of the same thing. You will find you are thinking differently.

I suppose one of the words I am looking for is bias.

TaraR2020 · 04/10/2021 11:08

@DancesWithTortoises your dismissive comment about another person's rape is absolutely abhorrent

Original poster
GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr · 04/10/2021 11:10

@CreepingDeath

I'm guessing Dances is either a troll or deluded.
Yep.
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Becca19962014 · 04/10/2021 11:10

I was flashed, more than once, and told by a social worker to report it. The police asked me for a description, which I couldn't give as he'd covered his face completely with a scarf, literally only exposing himself, and, the female officer after telling me he was probably just caught short, and me explaining that was absolutely not the case, she then laughed and said it was all just a harmless joke.

The social worker rang the police in my appointment and gave them what for, on speakerphone, and I could hear the officer saying it was meaningless fun. Weeks later, same spot, someone was raped there. The police rang for more information because it was probably him. Social worker told them it was too late to give a shit then he wouldn't have them blaming me for someone else's rape (which was what they said, if I'd tried harder to identify him/convince them I could have stopped him). Both times the social worker was livid.

ElizaDarcysDeeds · 04/10/2021 11:11

It's indefensible. I must admit it's made me reconsider all the other high profile male figures involved with Doctor Who when John Barrowman was there eg David Tennant, Russell T Davies, Steven Moffat. All of them could have stopped it but instead they condoned it. I know some of them are saying they didn't know about it but they put it in a tribute song/roast when the showrunners were leaving. They talked about it on stage at a con.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 04/10/2021 11:11

Gross. Any man who thinks it’s OK to expose himself in any situation other than an intimate sexual relationship, is both disgusting and deluded.

CharityDingle · 04/10/2021 11:12

@Gastonia

I think there's a lot of denial going on with this stuff. If you've enjoyed watching JB over the years it's a big mental shift to see him as an offender Absolutely this. He's is such a charismatic person, such fun, so charming, so funny, so handsome, so popular. It's just these sort of people who get away with such behaviour, that you just wouldn't tolerate from anyone else, and manages to erode boundaries in plain sight.
The only programme I have watched him on, was Dancing on Ice, and I couldn't stand him on that. And that's before I knew anything about his behaviour.
BIWI · 04/10/2021 11:12

@flipflopping

I think there's a lot of denial going on with this stuff. If you've enjoyed watching JB over the years (and Dr Who andTorchwood are series that people get quite personally invested in) it's a big mental shift to see him as an offender and so have to reframe all those happy and very personal memories. Hence people reach for the excuses- it doesn't count because he's gay or it was just a laugh or he apologised.

You see the same thing with older people and the behaviour of stars in the 60s and 70s. So many excuses, so much wilful ignorance. It's less about protecting the star and more about protecting your own memories and sense of self.

@flipflopping

Less of the ageist stuff please!

DancesWithTortoises · 04/10/2021 11:13

[quote TaraR2020]@DancesWithTortoises your dismissive comment about another person's rape is absolutely abhorrent[/quote]
Perhaps it was - but deliberately misunderstanding me to imply that's what I thought is also abhorrent.

Blueuggboots · 04/10/2021 11:14

I used to like him until I followed him on Instagram. He is vile. Fawning and draping himself over men young enough to be his son with overtly sexual overtones. I don't mean it would be acceptable regardless of age/sex/gender identity but he's really really vile.

TimeToDateAgain · 04/10/2021 11:16

I remember a few years ago when Scarlett Johannsen was groped on the red carpet - the guy literally squeezed her breasts live on tv angry. His 'defence' was that he was gay so it was ok hmm. These guys are disgusting, they don't seem to think anyone else's boundaries matter.

Sexual assault in public like this is a way to assert status over all women (even the enormously talented and successful ones) and make them seem available to every man in the right circumstances. It's abhorrent.

CandyLeBonBon · 04/10/2021 11:17

As a teenager I worked in my local theatre as a dresser. A particular, well known at the time, actor decided to flash me his genitals for a 'laugh'. I was 15. I laughed in shock but it wasn't funny.

That shit is rife and it's not ok. Not ever.

DancesWithTortoises · 04/10/2021 11:17

@CreepingDeath

I'm guessing Dances is either a troll or deluded.
I am neither. I'm furious that my words were deliberately misinterpreted.

I repeat. I was speaking of John and no one else. It's dishonest of anyone to pretend otherwise.

Original poster
GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr · 04/10/2021 11:19

On another thread Tortoises claims that 'American lawyers wouldn't be chasing Prince Andrew if he was poor'.

I think we can disregard anything Tortoises has to say on this subject.

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SirGawain · 04/10/2021 11:19

DancesWithTortoises
Aren't you a piece of work!

Becca19962014 · 04/10/2021 11:22

When I working at uni there were two soap stars there. One played an, at the time, typical soap villain, totally nasty, the other was the typical nice guy on the soap.

In real life Trouble followed "the villain" constantly though nothing ever stuck people became wary of him through rumours. The "nice guy" eventually was arrested and prosecuted for rape and other sexual offences. Multiple times. And excluded.

Everyone was so shocked. I never really got that reasoning though, they weren't their characters on tv but it was shocking how many thought along those lines.

Original poster
GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr · 04/10/2021 11:23

There are so many awful stories on this thread.

Flowers to all of you.

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CreepingDeath · 04/10/2021 11:24

@GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr

On another thread Tortoises claims that 'American lawyers wouldn't be chasing Prince Andrew if he was poor'.

I think we can disregard anything Tortoises has to say on this subject.

It's best just to ignore, or the thread gets derailed.
JasonMomoasgirlfriend · 04/10/2021 11:25

@DancesWithTortoises why so forgiving just because it's John Barrowman then, if your words were only relevant to him? If it was someone else are you suggesting then that it's not ok?

DancesWithTortoises · 04/10/2021 11:25

@GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr

On another thread Tortoises claims that 'American lawyers wouldn't be chasing Prince Andrew if he was poor'.

I think we can disregard anything Tortoises has to say on this subject.

A bit pathetic to go searching history, dear. Creepy behaviour.

What is untrue about that? In a civil case they want compensation. You think the lawyers would be chasing a poor man?

Off to change my name now - can't be doing with stalkers.

Original poster
GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr · 04/10/2021 11:28

@ElizaDarcysDeeds

It's indefensible. I must admit it's made me reconsider all the other high profile male figures involved with Doctor Who when John Barrowman was there eg David Tennant, Russell T Davies, Steven Moffat. All of them could have stopped it but instead they condoned it. I know some of them are saying they didn't know about it but they put it in a tribute song/roast when the showrunners were leaving. They talked about it on stage at a con.
I feel the same. DT has been one of my favourite actors for years but the idea that he might have been complicit in this is sickening. It's astounding that the climate exists, still, that allows men to carry out these acts. Even now, after Yew Tree and all the convictions for historic sexual assault in the entertainment industry. It's like no lessons have been learnt and nothing changes. It's so depressing.
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