Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be astounded people are defending John Barrowman

211 replies

GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr · 04/10/2021 07:20

Or that they ever did, but particularly in the current climate.

Defending/diminishing the actions of a man whose colleagues have repeatedly said has exposed himself at work? Really? If he worked at Sainsbury's and did it there would it be ok too?

Some of the excuses I've heard include he's gay so he didn't fancy them, what's the problem/it was just a laugh/he's in showbusiness, it's different and so on. No. It's not. Assault is assault and dismissing it or justifying it, or implying that women need to lighten up and get a sense of humour, normalises his actions and validates others who do similar - it's just messing about/a bit of fun, after all.

I cannot believe that anyone would think it's ok to slap your penis on a colleague's body while at work, but apparently some people do. Bonkers.

OP posts:
CaveMum · 04/10/2021 11:29

@Clocktopus

I think there were huge issues on the Doctor Who and Torchwood productions with a lot of people throwing their weight around and a lot of unacceptable behaviour going unchecked.

Christopher Eccleston quit after one season partly due to the working environment and has made comments about how some members of staff (unnamed) were treating other members of staff. John Barrowman has referred to Eccleston in interviews as "grumpy" and "miserable" and that they didn't really get on because he wasn't up for a laugh, I'd put money on Barrowman being one of the people that Eccleston was referring to and that Barrowman considered him to be miserable because he wasn't accepting of his behaviour.

On the Torchwood set there was allegedly a falling out between Barrowman and James Marsters over Barrowman's sexualised comments and behaviour on set.

I'm glad to hear that about James Marsters, I had a massive crush on him in his Buffy days but he also came across as having integrity - he talked about how upsetting he found it to film the attempted rape scene in Season 6 saying “It was the hardest day of my professional life. I was curled up in a foetal position in between takes. I can’t watch scenes like that. I choose not to. I won’t go to a movie that has something like that. It’s a specific hot button for me. It just really makes me crazy. It was really hard. It was just unbelievably hard.”

So I'd like to think that he called JB out on his appalling behaviour.

Clocktopus · 04/10/2021 11:30

I read somewhere that he now has a clause in his contracts saying he won't participate in scenes involving rape or sexual assault.

Original poster
GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr · 04/10/2021 11:31

@DancesWithTortoises a name change won't change your nasty views, sadly.

And yes, when someone makes a deeply hurtful, insensitive and upsetting comment like that to me, I'm going to AS them. Not stalking, and no apologies.

OP posts:
JasonMomoasgirlfriend · 04/10/2021 11:34

Lol @DancesWithTortoises it's a totally nor alnthing to do to check a posters history. That's why the function is there...

But good "excuse" for you because you'd always be remembered as the abuser apologist.

JasonMomoasgirlfriend · 04/10/2021 11:34

Normal thing*

CaveMum · 04/10/2021 11:41

@Clocktopus

I read somewhere that he now has a clause in his contracts saying he won't participate in scenes involving rape or sexual assault.
That's good. I do hope he was one of those that stood up to Joss Whedon for his behaviour, though sadly it sounds like most people on the show just tried to keep their heads down and out of the firing line themselves. I have seen him say that he would never dispute other people's experiences of what happened to them and that he did have a physical altercation with Joss early on (where Joss shoved him against a wall), but he's never explicitly said he confronted it.
LaetitiaASD · 04/10/2021 11:45

@Gastonia

I think there's a lot of denial going on with this stuff. If you've enjoyed watching JB over the years it's a big mental shift to see him as an offender Absolutely this. He's is such a charismatic person, such fun, so charming, so funny, so handsome, so popular. It's just these sort of people who get away with such behaviour, that you just wouldn't tolerate from anyone else, and manages to erode boundaries in plain sight.
I get why a good looking extrovert is a more appealing watch when you want to indulge in some brain-free TV than an ugly introvert would be... but I just don't get how people look at "celebrities" and given them so much positivity.

If anything, IMHO, the ASSUMPTION should be

(1) We need to watch out, with that much charisma he could be dangerous.
or
(2) Given she's reached the top there's a fair old chance that some people have been stepped on along the way.
or
(3) Is it possible to be that "big" on stage without having some serious issues going on inside?
or
(4) Is it even possible to get that much acclaim without being sent somewhat crazy by it?

Instead there's an assumption that because someone can work a crowd whilst looking stereotypically attractive they must be a good person. Bonkers.

It's like Jimmy Saville... sorry, if you want to spend that much time around kids then there's an exceptionally high chance that you're either in need of psychiatric help to assist you becoming a more well-rounded normal person, or you're a sick sick paedophile.

Northofsomewhere · 04/10/2021 11:46

JB was an adult when these events occurred, I don't think an apology (however sincere or insincere) can hide the fact he knew better. We teach children when it's appropriate to show your genitals and when it's not. He knew that the workplace was not one of those places and that flashing your co-workers is sexual assault and has been illegal for a long time. His fame and sexuality is probably what has saved him for a prosecution for so long, without those to hide behind I doubt he'd be so open about it.

limitedperiodonly · 04/10/2021 11:47

I hope he's invested his earnings in a good pension plan because he's not going to be seeing any more big pay days in future.

AngelicaSchuylerAndHerSisters · 04/10/2021 11:51

It is revolting. And the gay argument means nothing. He is using his penis to make people feel uncomfortable. It has nothing to do with sex. Rape has nothing to do with sex either, it’s about power. This is power of a different kind.

Witchinthedales · 04/10/2021 11:52

Never been a fan, he gives me the creeps.

TaraR2020 · 04/10/2021 11:54

Hi Gold

Are you ok? I think I was one of a few who reported Dances appalling post but no doubt you still had to read it. The whole thread must be very triggering for you.

Flowers
Porcupineintherough · 04/10/2021 12:04

Rape has nothing to do with sex

Yuk! Why anyone repeats this twaddle is beyond me. So unhelpful. Many, many rapes are absolutely about sex.

backoffice · 04/10/2021 12:09

I’m not defending him BUT

I do think this sort of thing was acceptable in this sort of industry 20-30 years ago. This has REALLY changed. I worked in the media and this behaviour was normalised. Was that right: no. Was it normalised and normal: yep.

Thank fuck things have changed. But I can understand the defenders in that we were all complicit, and that is very uncomfortable.

Feedingthebirds1 · 04/10/2021 12:10

Sadly I don't think MN is representative of all the female population. I had the misfortune a couple of years ago to be in Blackpool on a Saturday evening. The behaviour of the hen parties was, to me, horrific. Overtly and highly sexualised, approaching random men and telling them what they'd do to them so why not go down a back alley and do it. Same on any Friday/Saturday night at throwing out time. Not all the women but enough making drunken approaches to any unattached male to get that night's shag.

I can imagine that those women, if JB did that to them would take it as lot of fun and even as a compliment. Someone very famous sticking his dick on their shoulder.

I'm not defending him, a lot of women - as here and including me - would be horrified and see it for what it is, sexual assault. But there are women who would see us as stuck up prudes for it.

Ericaceae · 04/10/2021 12:18

[quote GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr]@Mothersister Noel Clarke, not Noel Fielding. Noel F is lovely (I've him a few times via friends who have worked with him).[/quote]
Just this morning a tweet about Noel Fielding popped into my timeline. He was "canoodling" with Pixie Geldolf at parties when she was at school, 16 years old, and he was 33. It was in the papers at the time, and I don't know why he seems to get a free pass. Legal, granted, but deeply unsavoury.

dworky · 04/10/2021 12:21

@GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr

I've not seen any women defending him, unsurprisingly.
When the news first broke there were women on here defending him.
Clocktopus · 04/10/2021 12:23

I have seen him say that he would never dispute other people's experiences of what happened to them and that he did have a physical altercation with Joss early on (where Joss shoved him against a wall), but he's never explicitly said he confronted it.

I don't know how many of the cast could confront it without finding themselves out of a job. Joss Whedon was huge at that time, Buffy and Angel were big budget shows, it would have been very easy for him to black ball anyone speaking up or going against him - look how he ruined Charisma Carpenter's career for the crime of getting pregnant.

Mothersister · 04/10/2021 12:25

@Ericaceae what a creep. What kind of grown man wants to hang around with a child. I knew my spidey senses were right about him.

YourFinestPantaloons · 04/10/2021 12:26

YANBU.

I'm just gonna say it: people give him a free pass because he's gay and therefore think there no sexual malice behind him exposing himself.

YourFinestPantaloons · 04/10/2021 12:27

There obviously is sexual malice

YourFinestPantaloons · 04/10/2021 12:29

@Porcupineintherough

Rape has nothing to do with sex

Yuk! Why anyone repeats this twaddle is beyond me. So unhelpful. Many, many rapes are absolutely about sex.

I think this just means: men don't rape women because they simply want to have sex a lot. It's always a power trip, as well as sex.
Original poster
GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr · 04/10/2021 12:38

@Ericaceae That's disgusting. I take back my initial positive comments about him.

OP posts:
BanditoShipman · 04/10/2021 12:41

I believe Christopher Ecclestone stood up against it and was then ‘blacklisted’ for a long time… he disappeared off the screen for a long while. Horrible that he faced repercussions when doing the right thing.

Ericaceae · 04/10/2021 12:46

[quote GoldFrankensteinAndGrrr]@Ericaceae That's disgusting. I take back my initial positive comments about him.[/quote]
Yeah, fair enough. I really hope that didn't come across as a dig, btw, so sorry if it read that way at all. My point was just that - it seems to have generally swept under the carpet since, and I don't think it's common knowledge as a result. Cf. all the posts about how "things were different" 10, 20, 30 years ago, and it's just another example of how things weren't widely talked about.