Not to help young adult son with rent deposit

[namechangeuser4859304]

Have namechanged as embarrassed about this situation.

Eldest son didnt get in to his preferred course at chosen university, I encouraged him to take up the same course at the opposite end of the country., I thought that student life might make him more self-reliant with the support system of halls around him. Before he left, I realised that I had made a terrible mistake in this encouragement and that he simply wasn;t self-sufficient enough as I prodded and prodded him to deal with the paperwork, but he was excited and I didnt want to be the bad guy.

Despite my misgivings, things seemed to go well, he seemed happy, was attending lectures, learned how to wash clothes and all seemed good. Because his paperwork was late, he didnt get his grant, but I had spoken to the halls and they were understanding as they could see the paperwork was in. The first Christmas home (2019), he had a massive row with his younger brother, much drama, but left with it all resolved and everyone friends again.

He went back, his grant came in and he assured us that he had paid his (catered) halls, which left him with spending money for the rest of the year. Then he got covid, by the time he recovered, the University had moved to online teaching only, he couldnt/didnt get access and the rest of that year was basically a write off, he did no work and failed everything. . I spoke to him about moving to a university up here and starting again and he seemed to be considering it. He did by now have a girlfriend, and they had spent most of lockdown together.

They both came up at Summer, and she was quiet, but lovely. I spoke to him again about coming up to restart university and he told me that his gf had also failed, was retaking the year and he wanted to be with her. I suggested that he went back but took a year out, earned some cash, and had a think about what he wanted to do the following year.

They rented a room in a shared house, with him unofficially staying but not on the tenancy. When he came up at Xmas (2020), not only had he not been working it seemed this housing arrangement had blown up, and he could no longer stay there, that he had not paid any hall fees the previous year, and was horrifically overdrawn. He asked for a £600 deposit for a room and £300 for a bike to do deliveroo. I had a bit of a "come to jesus" talk with him where I repeated over and over that the solution was to get a job, any job, as soon as possible and start digging his way out of this mess, but you know it was a shit year and I was willing to give him some leaway and cycling is healthy , so I gave him £1k

A month after this, one of the sharers wanted to move out, and he had the opportunity to rent a room, so he moved back in, I let him keep the deposit money. He seemed to be doing deliveroo piecemeal, scraping rent every month, and was struggling even with his Dad sending him £50-100pcm, and me sending him in the region of £2k over this 6 month period Telephone contact was sparce, but the course his girlfriend was doing was being shut by the university, she was likely to fail again and he was trying to persuade her to come up here with him, they would both live here, go back to college then on to university. This seemed like a plan!

In August he phoned me and asked if I would buy him a ticket up to visit, I knew he was skint so I agreed. What followed was just a whirlwind. The mess, the rudeness, the entitlement, the swaggering about - his sister had borrowed his headphones that he had left here and lost them. I offered to replace them but it turned into an enormous drama with him demanding far far more than I believe they cost. He basically ruined his brother's birthday to the point where I was in tears in the kitchen, he had an enormous row with his Dad who had had the baliffs for his hall fees debt at his door, which almost turned physical. I am wfh, yet he was crashing about at all hours of the day and night, wandering in and talking to me while I was on meetings, continually demanding my time and attention over trivia, yet in the month he stayed here he was unable to change a lightbulb I repeatedly asked him to (high ceilings, he's tall, I cant safely reach). So much of it was trivia,... but there was so much of it. He announced that he would not be coming back, his gf was moving in with her parents, he would get a flat nearby and she would move in. The main feeling that most of us had when he left was relief but skepticism that his flat plan would work out.

Then radio silence for a month...until friday. I got a call from him saying that he had been staying in hotels but had run out of money and was now going to live in a tent while his council house application came through. I explained that this really wasnt how council housing worked and that as a single man he was at the very bottom of the priority list. He then sent me a link to a private flat he had been looking at, but - and with a very very long sob story about why - could not afford (any of) the deposit. I said I would take a look. I spoke to him a few hours later where he seemed to think that I had agreed to transfer him £4k(!) for this deposit, I made it clear that I had done no such thing.

I gave it careful thought last night. I am not well disposed to him after his recent antics, but he is clearly in a mess. I cannot have him staying here, I simply do not have time for the petty arguments, mess, interruptions and rudeness. His dad has offered to put him up short-term on condition that he buck his ideas up. I wrote to him this morning offering a "three figure sum" for him to use as he pleases, but that I strongly recommended that he took up his dad's offer, and used the money to return. What I got back was a torrent of messages calling me "financially negligent", "a twisted sociopath", that I blame him for things going wrong in my life and that "everyone" has said that it is bad for his mental health to speak to me, and that I am never to call him again.

I am now quite seriously worried, but even less inclined to transfer him any money. AIBU/WWYD?

(oh lordy, this is long, congrats if you made it to the end)

I have 2 sons registered disabled,the youngest has rapid cycle bipolar, severe depression and is on the autism spectrum. He's had his own flat since 18,is now in his 30s. Rarely asking for anything. Oldest lost his flat,after loosing his job,was going to live in his car,in winter. He was unaware he could claim housing benefit,both have been brought up to be self sufficient,and are very proud. One DD I mentioned, the other would not dream of asking for anything.

Thanks everyone, just catching up now.

I didnt mean to drip feed about the Aspergers but I do tend to underestimate the effect (possibly because his Dad uses it as a continual excuse for him), but at the time I can see that he struggles a bit more than average, which is why I have been subbing him, even after the halls debacle.

I do feel guilty as someone pointed out about encouraging him to go and putting him in a situation that he couldnt cope with (although covid is also a factor here). The halls issue I suspect was an organisational problem that became worse with covid, so he lied to us and dipped into the money until it was all gone.

His gf is a bit of an unknown quantity, as late as July, the plan was they were both coming up to live with me, going to college, with a view to doing Uni again later. Maybe I'm making excuses here IDK, but the uni hasnt been properly functioning this year as well as last with the first term highly disrupted, the closure of the dept announced at Xmas and it being run down/deprioritised. She is also not NT.

She is quiet, I've only met her once and had a few "light" convos with her by phone. I know she has a difficult relationship with her mother, and I've heard hints of alcoholism (neither of those son nor gf drink, but yes, I do think they smoke weed - as did I when I was a student).

Given his behaviour, I'm really not sure if she is moving back home as a first step to end the relationship - if he behaved as badly around her as he did around us, I can well see him getting dumped. Or if its that the rreality of moving to the opposite side of the country to live with a parent that they dont know very well has just given her cold feet and they've hatched a plan around the flat that they have only realised is unrealistic too late.

I'd really quite like to speak to her/her parents, but as some people pointed out, I also fear that I am over-involved, and as I said at the start, I feel guilty that my encouragement has ultimately led to a situation where he cannot cope.

I feel a bit frozen, I dont know how to best help, without prolonging and making worse a hopeless situation, insisting he comes back which while I think is the best option, I still dont think is a great one, or leaving him to sink or swim.

I know the feeling op it’s difficult to know what to do for the best. We are financing dd through university while she works part time to finance her boyfriend and pay for things like cats. If we try to speak to her about it she cuts contact until she needs more money or her car is broken. She’s just had 4 months off with the idea of upping her hours to save some money for this term and she hasn’t saved anything and is skint so like you I have the same dilemma do I keep throwing money at the problem or show some tough love dd has no special needs that I know off the boyfriend probably does as he’s very controlling

Please don't think I am blaming you, @namechangeuser4859304, I understand how difficult it is being the parent of a DC with ASD. Don't leave him to sink or swim, you tried that when he went to uni and he is drowning. It might work for a NT DC but it's unlikely to work for your DS.

I don't know what to suggest. Going to university made it a lot easier to help my DC as there was a transition period where we could help them find coping strategies. We could see where they were struggling and help find solutions. It's normal for parents to have some involvement when DC are at university so they didn't go from being a child to having to be an adult on their own overnight.

We needed to help them come up with a strategy of almost military precision to be able to deal with day to day stuff without getting overwhelmed eg setting renewal dates for everything to be on the same day with a reminder on their phone, paying everything by direct debit, multiple bank accounts with standing orders to put some money in savings, money for bills in one account, another account for spending, getting them to meal plan and set up automatic online shopping lists etc.

If your DC has executive function issues, they need help finding a way to deal with them to be able to cope independently in the future. Your wouldn't expect a dyslexic child to teach themselves to read.

It was easier for us as they were open to support. Your DS might not want to accept help at this point.

@Phobiaphobic

I have direct experience of both Aspergers and this kind of behaviour. To be frank, I don't think much of your son's behaviour is about the autism, so much as having strong narcissistic and possibly sociopathic traits. In other words, he's thoroughly self centred and willing to wilfully hurt or use the people around him. You need strong boundaries to withstand that.

The good news is he is still young, and will likely improve as he ages and his brain matures. In the meantime, you need to protect yourself from his most chaotic behaviour and bullying. All you can do is offer as much help as you are willing to give, then accept that what he chooses to do from then on is out of your hands. Not to say that's easy - coming to terms with a child who turns into an unpleasant adult is one of the hardest things any parent has to do. So much guilt and so many what ifs. You may love your kids, but you can't always like them.

Ditto.

Which is why I wouldn't fund the housing he wants and tell him to get a reality check about what he can afford going forward versus what he wants.

If he wants to live better, then he needs to finish that degree and work.

'Fed up of sharing' at his age? I was flat sharing until I was 33, OP. With a good professional job and a decent wage. I was absolutely sick of it but didn't expect my parents to fund my rent.

Everything you've written here reminds me of my brother. Dropped out of uni, bailed out over and over again by my parents. Constant guilt tripping, terrible behaviour that he never, ever seemed to have to pay for. He's never had to just live with the consequences of fucking up and as a result he's never learned to take responsibility for his own actions or life. Everything is always someone else's fault. He also has suspected ASD.

I don't know what the solution is here. My parents are terrified my brother will die if they stop helping him. He's now 35, living at home, no friends, no job, addicted to alcohol with terrible depression and anxiety. I believe in my heart that if they'd treated him the way they treated me (refusing to pay for me) much earlier in life, it would never have got this bad. He just never grew up or matured. He talks to my parents like he's a moody teenager and not a man heading for middle age. He shouts and is abusive. He just doesn't seem to grasp that they have no obligation towards him at all at this point. I think some tough love when he was 20-21 might have worked. It's far too late now. He's ruined his own life and he's ruining my parents' lives. They're in their mid sixties now, retired, and instead of enjoying themselves, they're worried and angry with an overgrown teenager who won't leave their home. It's had a horrible impact on me and my other siblings as well, as he's taken time and attention away from the rest of us constantly. I had a big life event ruined when he kicked off and my parents drove 200 miles to rescue him. He is so tremendously self absorbed and entitled that he doesn't see what he's doing to all of us.

Whatever you decide to do, definitely don't let this happen.

i dont think you are over involved - you are his parent and doing your best op

When I said "deposit" its actually 3 months upfront + 6 weeks security deposit + assorted fees in an expensive area of the country. It wasnt exactly £4k he requested but a very precise sum, which seems to check out, roughly to the above., and yes, I'm doubtful he would get the private rental flat even with the money because of his lack of employment/dodgy previous tenure situation.

He was/is getting universal credit but not the housing element (cos longwinded reasons). On reflection, I do think his difficulties navigating paperwork are a much bigger issue than I had recognised, I did all the household paperwork, and its come as a shock how bureaucratic adult life is.

His Dad and I have spoken again today, and I've realised that he (his Dad) sent some pretty unpleasant texts in the aftermath of that big row, which adds another dimension to it. I spoke to his brother as well (another new adult) and he thinks that his Dad is not in the right frame of mind to host him and that he would be much better coming here. I've asked his bro to contact him to ask if he would be prepared to speak to me with a view to thrashing out some kind of plan. He hasnt managed to get hold of him yet.

Thanks for all the comments, they are all useful. I think I have been a bit indulgent, not fully recognised his issues, thrown money at a problem that had deeper causes (although in my defence, I did see it as a short term sticking plaster) and I must admit that it was a bit of a relief when he went back down, despite thinking that it was doomed, but there was just no talking to him, any attempt to do so turned into a row, and he's an adult, I cant stop him getting on a plane.

Any time I tried to talk to him about a plan, another immediate enormous priority issue would crop up.....like the cat miaowing to be fed, and how I wasnt looking after it properly and I hadnt done this month's flea treatment, and on and on and on. I'm realising from posters that have dealt with similar that this is probably his Aspengers manifesting rather than brattishness.

But he really does need help. I think the gf thing is them clinging to the other as the one thing that has stayed good over a pretty miserable couple of years, but maybe also he's starting to lose her and thinks that coming back will be the end.

Persuading him to come back up and stay here (with the twisted sociopath who is ruining his life) seems like the best way forward. I am also happy to have his gf visit/stay if she would like. I just hope that he recognises that, because otherwise I'm at a total loss of what to actually do, if he refuses to take any advice.

@namechangeuser4859304
I'm glad you feel better with a clearer pathway.
I hope it works out.
Encourage independence if he returns.
If you've the room buy a log cabin for the garden with the £4000 help him grow up.
No more doing his washing or paperwork.
This is a learning opportunity for his future.
He'll be better prepared next time.

If he comes back, you're going to half to have rules for him to stay there or he'll be running over you again.

Treat him as an adult because he is.

That means him taking care of his room, doing his own laundry, cooking his own meals, creating a budget and paying his own bills, filling out his own forms.
Either being enrolled or school or working at a job.

Teach him how to do these things but don't do it for him.

By the time he's ready to move out, he should know how to run a household.

I do think they smoke weed - as did I when I was a student

The weed they'll be smoking is not what you smoked as a student - it is much much stronger.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43196566
It could be a factor in his erratic behaviour.

Op you did what you thought was best at the time non of us are perfect parents ask my dd who thinks I am the worst person alive they don’t come with instruction books unfortunately

Hope you get this resolved for your sanity and your ds sake and future not so hopeful with dd while her boyfriend is still on the scene but what can you do they are adults all be it young adults with little life experience but they know best

@RantyAunty

If he comes back, you're going to half to have rules for him to stay there or he'll be running over you again.

Treat him as an adult because he is.

That means him taking care of his room, doing his own laundry, cooking his own meals, creating a budget and paying his own bills, filling out his own forms.
Either being enrolled or school or working at a job.

Teach him how to do these things but don't do it for him.

By the time he's ready to move out, he should know how to run a household.

I think things like budget/bills/forms/online enrollment stuff are just beyond him. Although he is pretty tech savvy, in some ways he just hasnt dealt with things like word application forms and organisational registration sites.

I helped him set up his original uni online account and I think a barrier to him completing his first year is that he couldnt access the upgraded online system without help, but that help wasnt as available cos covid.

I think getting him back here, a bit more stable, chilled and secure, followed by a realistic look at where he wants to be in a years time and how he intends to get there, followed by an actual realistic plan to, that I am happy to help him achieve would be the best outcome.

But thats kindof dependent on him accepting my help and committing to a plan.

Good luck, I really hope it works out well. I’m in not quite the same situation with my adult son (in his 20s) but definitely feel like I’m enabling his not great budgeting etc with frequent financial help, you tend to assume that things get easier as they get older but that’s not my experience!

Hi OP, I've read all your posts but not the whole thread.

Just wanted to say I think this sounds like a good plan. My young adult son, 19, has had an awful 18 months (at home) with spiralling mental health and I now realise, ADHD. In his worst times the anger came lashing out at me, but was, I now realise, him feeling out of control and scared.

As you've said, the whole admin and organisation of adulting IS really complex, particularly if you have executive functioning difficulties. Even being next to my son, and with 30 years experience of it myself, I find some of what is required now (after you've read lengthy attachments) challenging. I had expected my son to just take over with it, but in retrospect that was unrealistic, and a more staggered year with us doing admin stuff together (after six months of nothing happening) has given him more scaffolding and practice.

I know from chats with mates how many of our young adults have been struggling with Lockdown and the disappearing support structures. It is a wholly different world, and that, coupled with transition from school to university, is massive transition, quite apart from additional needs. Being able to identify what is going wrong, and then tell others, is challenging too.

No advice, but just wanted you to know you're not alone and none of this is black and white.

I guess it is hard, if you have the money spare, not to throw it at the issue. i never did and my dd struggled, she asked for private counselling, which i could not provide. she had student support which she didnt find helpful.

OP has anyone ever shown him how to do these things or did you just automatically do it for him?

I have ADHD and lots of things are hard. I had to learn how to do things and it took practice. I manage to do things for the most part.

Let him live at his dads for a bit and get himself sorted.

I swear every other kid on MN has Aspergers or ADHD. This isn't my experience in real life so I'm always sceptical. Especially, when it's not in the OP.

How would you know? DD was diagnosed with ADD as an adult; and it's as clear as the light of day, that she inherited it from her father, who has ADHD - but grew up in the 60s, when afaik we both know, SEN was an unknown concept at our schools!

I do believe however, that when dealing with someone, suffering executive function difficulties, it is pointless leaving them to sink or swim, in the belief they are adults now and need to learn!

I swear every other kid on MN has Aspergers or ADHD. This isn't my experience in real life so I'm always sceptical. Especially, when it's not in the OP.

People without problems and who support in rl don't post them on MN. Most parents with kids with SEN/disabilities don't have this support so post in MN.

OP, your plan sounds very measured and sensible. I hope he agrees to come home for a while and with support he can learn how to do all the admin and stuff you need to do as an adult.

I really hope it works out for you all and that he is able to work towards independence from the security of his family home.

Your plan sounds very reasonable. Have you looked into additional support for young adults with autism? The info on the link below looks like it could be helpful to him

www.ambitiousaboutautism.org.uk/information-about-autism/preparing-for-adulthood/work-experience-and-employment