To not understand why voters aren't angry about all the lies Tories and Brexiteers told them and the resulting mess they've created?

[Kendodd]

Voters still seem to love them and are absolutely welded to their vote despite the evidence all around them that they were lied to.
I would be absolutely furious with them if their lies had persuaded me to vote Leave and Tory.

Yanbu - I would be angry as well
Yabu - everything else

FFS give it up about Brexit. That was five years ago. You lost, deal with it.

As for the Tories ... politicians lie, who knew?

We are all welded to our views and there is a distinct lack of critical thinking and consensus seeking. Meanwhile all the grownups have left the building except the wealthy powerful ones keen to maintain that status and we have very poor opposition parties.

@LarryTheLurker

FFS give it up about Brexit. That was five years ago. You lost, deal with it.

As for the Tories ... politicians lie, who knew?

This is just plain wrong. The Brexit vote was five years ago. And we have been going through transition. But the full effects of Brexit will still be felt for at least a decade.

To start with, the customs situation in the UK is about to undergo more serious disruption. Things have been unwinding since 1 January but the full introduction of the new Customs Declaration Service will be on on 1 October 2022 for imports - no one who moves goods internationally will be immune to the changes. This will have a knock on effect in manufacturing and retail.

I voted remain and even I'm bored of all these threads now.

FFS give it up about Brexit.

Why?
We will be living with the consequences for decades, why shouldn't we talk about it?

To answer your question KenDodd I think they would be a lot angrier had it not been for Covid, which has provided the perfect cover sadly.

Some are not angry because they are not that politically engaged in the first place. Maybe when goods in supermarket, prescription medicines and the price of virtually anything that is imported starts to climb, they will be a bit more upset about it and start to realise that being part of the single market gave us more heft economically-speaking and contrary to popular belief, was a lot less bureaucratic and costly.

@LarryTheLurker

FFS give it up about Brexit. That was five years ago. You lost, deal with it.

As for the Tories ... politicians lie, who knew?

The govt hasn’t, Brexit hasn’t even been fully implemented as govt has asked EU for another delay to implementation. They don’t want to claim the full prize just yet.

www.euronews.com/2021/09/14/uk-delays-introduction-of-customs-checks-on-eu-imports-citing-supply-chain-issues

OP - I try not to denigrate folk who voted differently to me but it’s hard with all the hysterical screeching of ‘it’s not Brexit’.

They are blaming everything but not even considering it could be Brexit.

@LarryTheLurker

FFS give it up about Brexit. That was five years ago. You lost, deal with it.

As for the Tories ... politicians lie, who knew?

Well, this is evidence that your point is correct.

I think it all became so heated and partisan that leavers just won't admit they were wrong. Probably not even to themselves. It is much easier for those who voted remain to see themselves proven right.

But, yeah. I think, our political system has been proven to be broken by the events of recent years, and there seems to be no way to hold politicians to account. (Other than by not voting for them "next time" but when that is another 5 years away and still the only consequence is them not holding their seat then it doesn't really seem much of a consequence).

@Kendodd

FFS give it up about Brexit.

Why?
We will be living with the consequences for decades, why shouldn't we talk about it?

Because it's happened and nobody can change that.

Re-entry to the EU is probably something worth talking about, but until the UK actually is "U", has its own house in order, has rinsed out at least some of the rampant corruption and has fumigated at least some of the parasites from its own system, I think better keep the sign up saying "Closed for refurbishment".

Yes, I don't get how they are still getting away with it, the bunch of shysters.

It says it all when the best argument the brexiteers have left is “shut up about Brexit”

Because what’s the point?
I see posts here and on other SM from folk ‘literally shaking’ with rage and sadness over stuff they can do nothing about.

By all means protest but don’t let things affect your everyday happiness.

Most of the difficulties attributed to Brexit and Covid are not direct results of those to things. They are results of political choices that have subsequently been made. There seem to be some hardcore remainers who love the idea of difficulties they can link to Brexit without considering the fact that they are choices made by governments. In the same way that extended lockdowns and closures were not inevitable consequences of covid 19. There are issues that need dealing with but they can be solved with political will. We don’t have to fall for the hard winter rhetoric as though it is inevitable.

Most of the difficulties attributed to Brexit and Covid are not direct results of those to things. They are results of political choices that have subsequently been made.

Could you be more specific please Newrumpus? What difficulties in particular?

Because Remainers (largely) think everything is the fault of the Tory party and Brexit.
And Leavers think nothing is the fault of the Tory party and Brexit.
You’ll not change either mindset. Doesn’t matter if the truth often lies somewhere in the middle. Neither side wants to hear it.

@HelloMissus

Because what’s the point? I see posts here and on other SM from folk ‘literally shaking’ with rage and sadness over stuff they can do nothing about.

By all means protest but don’t let things affect your everyday happiness.

Yeah that's all very cool but you might be "shaking with rage" if a business you have spent a lifetime building up has now been badly compromised because of Brexit. Fine if it was necessary and Brexit made one, single thing better. But Brexit has made every single normal transaction x3 harder and more expensive! There are absolutely no benefits to it! Apart from utterly ridiculous emotional ones for those that believe in British exceptionalism.

Because to your average voter Boris et al are still a better prospect than Labour! Labour are so out of touch with their roots and original voters its laughable! They will never win another GE until they realise what they have become.

One reason I think people are still convinced about their vote is the so called 'culture wars' we now find ourselves in. Us v Them has very much been stoked to political advantage.

I think the post above mine is the perfect example.

Nobody who voted Leave and Tory seems to be looking back and holding the liars to account.

@Kendodd

Nobody who voted Leave and Tory seems to be looking back and holding the liars to account.

ALL politicians are liars! Its that simple! The people who are voting know this and just vote for the liar that seems most relatable to them! Labour are so out of touch with your average working class voter it's actually laughable!

Cognitive dissonance.

Humans are amazing at it, it's an evolutionary strategy. In order to flourish and build a society, we have to know that we and all the people we love could die at literally any moment with no warning or time to prepare- but still get up every morning and play our part in keeping the species and society going.

It's like religion. Hundreds of thousands of people just in the UK believe in a loving god who answers prayers, despite their own lived experience AND despite the fact that many of those prayers are for people across the world who continue to spend their whole lives poor, hungry and afraid.

In the face of that, voting repeatedly for a political party who claim to value 'working families' even as you watch education, quality of life and human rights deteriorating in ways that affect you directly and measurably, seems quite reasonable.

Because ALL politicians are liars. All of them. It's not like we've been told the truth for all of history and all of a sudden we've been lied to. Sadly, everyone's just used to it, they don't have the energy to be angry at something they half expected anyway.

@Papershuffle

Most of the difficulties attributed to Brexit and Covid are not direct results of those to things. They are results of political choices that have subsequently been made.

Could you be more specific please Newrumpus? What difficulties in particular?

Take the shortage of drivers - there is no doubt that Brexit played a part in this but it isn’t the only factor. Political will can overcome this issue. It is the same with trading and investments.