To not understand why voters aren't angry about all the lies Tories and Brexiteers told them and the resulting mess they've created?

[Kendodd]

Voters still seem to love them and are absolutely welded to their vote despite the evidence all around them that they were lied to.
I would be absolutely furious with them if their lies had persuaded me to vote Leave and Tory.

Yanbu - I would be angry as well
Yabu - everything else

You could also consider the changes in education as a factor. Massively underfunding schools leads to poorer education overall, but it has also lead to arts and creative subjects being decimated and subjects like English and History being pushed towards teaching to the exam. These are the subjects that traditionally help develop critical and creative thinking- it's not a coincidence that so many people working in the arts tend to lean to the left.

However, it's hard to raise a simple and convincing argument for funding these services properly because a) it is not a simple argument and so to many people automatically invalid and b) it can be hand waved away by people who understand but don't like it as 'ideological', a term that has become as loaded and misused as 'socialism'.

Each year it becomes harder to make the argument because there are more people coming out of education with minimal critical thinking skills but who have been encouraged to believe they're extremely intelligent because of their exam results. And if you're very intelligent, any argument you can't understand must just be wrong. I think we reached the tipping point in this century. The majority are now trained not to think critically and it will now be almost impossible for any party trying to reverse that to gain real traction.

It's also why, despite the cries of some posters here, there will not be a revolution.

I think for many people the issues are so huge, and so complex, that they struggle to see a way through. Or even engage with them at all, sometimes.

Also, I would say that Brexit and some other current things have been brewing for 40 years or more. If people hadn't been 'switched on' to a more individualistic way of thinking and living, Thatcher wouldn't have been voted in in 1979, for example.

Because despite all that has happened: At least Corbyn didn't get in.

Because most brexiters cannot bear to admit to themselves, never mind anyone else, what a massive fuck up it all is. They will carry on saying everything is better now that we've "taken back control" until the day they die.

What do you hope to gain out of these repeated threads OP? You keep asking why people vote Conservative and whether they should feel angry and betrayed and lied to or not and keep getting the same answers. Do you hope to change peoples minds? Get a new perspective you haven’t heard before?

yadnbu.

But sadly there are millions of brits who will never admit they were conned.

They all lie, im not going to waste my time on this earth being angry over a social construct put in place to manage us.

I just know im here on earth and I want to experience all it has to offer like the beautiful beaches, mountains etc because who know what happens when we die.

The concept of society, job, money is all put in place to control us so im not going to get angry. All of does it sow divisions.

Take the shortage of drivers - there is no doubt that Brexit played a part in this but it isn’t the only factor. Political will can overcome this issue. It is the same with trading and investments.

I knew you would choose lorry drivers as an example Newrumpus!

Yes of course the reasons for the shortage are mixed but the UK Road Haulage Association and chilled warehouse sector are both saying that it is specifically Brexit that is limiting the options for solutions.

I'd tend to agree, Dreamstate, except if you don't keep a close eye on the lying fuckers that get elected, there won't be any beautiful beaches left to enjoy.

They are destroying society and the planet, idgaf how dramatic that sounds. You cannot just abdicate your responsibility.

@LarryTheLurker

FFS give it up about Brexit. That was five years ago. You lost, deal with it.

As for the Tories ... politicians lie, who knew?

Way to prove the Op's point

It was a long time ago. We need to heal Britain. We all need to work together to improve things. It will be difficult to negotiate ways to work together.
Firstly we need to stop telling the other side they were wrong. That will stop every negotiation in it's tracks.
Do not make it a condition of how people voted in order to work or socialise with them.

We have to face the fact that there is no way back. Even if we voted for a return to the EU I doubt they would consider us. If they did the cost to us would be too great. We would have to give up Gibraltar and the £ and adopt the Euro. Plus whatever else they think of.

@Papershuffle

Take the shortage of drivers - there is no doubt that Brexit played a part in this but it isn’t the only factor. Political will can overcome this issue. It is the same with trading and investments.

I knew you would choose lorry drivers as an example Newrumpus!

Yes of course the reasons for the shortage are mixed but the UK Road Haulage Association and chilled warehouse sector are both saying that it is specifically Brexit that is limiting the options for solutions.

In the same way that many blamed covid for problems caused by lockdown as though lockdown was an inevitable consequence of covid. Lockdown, the length, extent and plan out of it were political decisions not inevitable consequences. The same is true of many things (such as driver shortages) that are being blamed on Brexit.

Not true. I voted brexit & tory & I'm bl**dy livid. Covid hasn't helped but our country is now being decimated by both central and local governments. Time to get a grip ffs.

In the same way that many blamed covid for problems caused by lockdown as though lockdown was an inevitable consequence of covid. Lockdown, the length, extent and plan out of it were political decisions not inevitable consequences. The same is true of many things (such as driver shortages) that are being blamed on Brexit.

You are making the same point Newrumpus which I understood first time around. Please tell us how Brexit is going to help the solution? You are a bit short on detail!

How is the fact that only 600 HGV drivers have returned in the last six months out of a total of 14,000 HGV drivers from the EU who left UK employment in the 12 months to June 2020, going to help the current crisis? When the UK imports 45 % of its food, 26% of which comes from the EU? What is the solution to that?

Why aren't they angry? Because many, the majority, will not accept that things going wrong are due to brexit. Helped of course, by the BBC and other media not mentioning the B word. Censoring it out of reports even.

A classic case, for any brexitbeliever reading, was the West Country fish wholesaler speaking on the BBC about how a container load had increased in price nearly five fold. Putting the blame fair and square on brexit. The BBC showed this once but then edited her out of the 6.00 o'clock news .

As retired lawyer Fionna O’Leary wrote:

This is the reverse of good journalism & is not in keeping with @BBCNews charter

“To act in the public interest, serving all audiences with impartial, high-quality and distinctive media content and services that inform, educate and entertain”

It is actively serving to deceive

See westcountrybylines.co.uk/bbcs-desperate-efforts-to-airbrush-out-brexit-heres-the-evidence/

@LarryTheLurker

FFS give it up about Brexit. That was five years ago. You lost, deal with it.

As for the Tories ... politicians lie, who knew?

Brexit hasn’t even begun. Why do you think there’s a shortage of 100k delivery drivers? This is just the beginning.

I think people who voted for Brexit/Boris don’t care about being lied to. I know a couple of people like this, they just shrug and say that it’s better than left wing communists (seriously) and that “all politicians lie”. It’s very depressing that such people can’t see the difference between the Cameron/Blair kind of dishonesty and the naked ‘lie all the time then say you didn’t even when it’s on video’ we have now.

It doesn’t help that Labour is in such terrible shape and has been since before the Brexit vote. And now Kier Starmer says he’s going to make private schools much more expensive. Wow, if there is one policy that would guarantee that middle class swing voters won’t vote Labour, that’s it.

I despise Boris and I voted Remain but I can’t vote for Kier Starmer if he’s going to raise the cost of private school. We’ve literally just moved DD from State to private because our local State is only interested in the bottom half of the class and is completely ignoring the top half of the class, who are being made to repeat work they could do 2 years ago and are bored out of their brains. If the government won’t educate DD then I’ll have to pay someone else to, which means paying twice as we already pay for the State education through income tax (we pay £100,000+ of income tax a year).

Dumb move Starmer 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

@Papershuffle

In the same way that many blamed covid for problems caused by lockdown as though lockdown was an inevitable consequence of covid. Lockdown, the length, extent and plan out of it were political decisions not inevitable consequences. The same is true of many things (such as driver shortages) that are being blamed on Brexit.

You are making the same point Newrumpus which I understood first time around. Please tell us how Brexit is going to help the solution? You are a bit short on detail!

How is the fact that only 600 HGV drivers have returned in the last six months out of a total of 14,000 HGV drivers from the EU who left UK employment in the 12 months to June 2020, going to help the current crisis? When the UK imports 45 % of its food, 26% of which comes from the EU? What is the solution to that?

You don’t seem to have got it first or second time. I didn’t say that Brexit would help would with driver shortages. I said there is a difference between things being conveniently blamed on Brexit and things a direct inevitable consequence of it.

Give it a break. It’s a combination of shedloads of stuff

After watching Starmer on BBC this morning, there isn't really an alternative to the Tories to vote for.

And now Kier Starmer says he’s going to make private schools much more expensive. Wow, if there is one policy that would guarantee that middle class swing voters won’t vote Labour, that’s it.

He’s said he’ll remove their charitable status so they’re not subsidised by the tax payer. This middle class voter sees that as a real positive. Why should the 93% of parents whose kids are state educated subsidise private schools for 7% of kids to have privilege bought for them? I don’t imagine anyone who pays for their kids’ education is likely to vote Labour.

.....are both saying that it is specifically Brexit that is limiting the options for solutions.

I think this is the crux of the issue, so whilst Brexit may not have caused the difficulties, it is making them harder to resolve.

You lost, deal with

We all lost though, we all suffer the consequences. Hard for those of us who didn't vote for it to understand why those who did are happy even themselves to suffer these consequences. Too pigheaded to say they were wrong/got conned in the main.

They all lie, im not going to waste my time on this earth being angry over a social construct put in place to manage us.

Not true.
We have never had absolutely demonstrable bare faced lying that we do now.
If politicians lie like that well chuck the whole lot of them out and get some honest people in. Honestly, I really don't understand why people wouldn't care about being lied to so much by politicians.

Why not post this on the Brexit board.