To not understand why voters aren't angry about all the lies Tories and Brexiteers told them and the resulting mess they've created?

[Kendodd]

Voters still seem to love them and are absolutely welded to their vote despite the evidence all around them that they were lied to.
I would be absolutely furious with them if their lies had persuaded me to vote Leave and Tory.

Yanbu - I would be angry as well
Yabu - everything else

I thought the Brexit topic was created specifically for people to go and wine about Brexit/no Brexit.
So did I. If you create a thread about a certain other issue beginning with "T", it goes to a naughty corner in double-quick time, yet this is still here. Double standards @MNHQ?

@DdraigGoch

I thought the Brexit topic was created specifically for people to go and wine about Brexit/no Brexit. So did I. If you create a thread about a certain other issue beginning with "T", it goes to a naughty corner in double-quick time, yet this is still here. Double standards *@MNHQ*?

I don't get it either. I reported one of the many standard frothing Brexit threads and was told it would only be moved if the OP was agreeable. They're bloody irritating now. Yes it's shit, but ranting on the internet repeatedly, over and over again isn't going to help.

@SilverDragonfly1 - I rarely see the link to education, and when I raise it in conversation often get looked at/answered as if it’s irrelevant. I passionately agree with what you’re saying, it’s appalling we’re stripping the critical thinking subjects from all but the elite basically. I worked in adult education, my subject was mainly literacy, this went from drop ins for support way back when, to only enrolling if there was an exam to be passed but getting a year of it, so incorporating many aspects of English to engage and enjoy and finally, when I left, to a roll on, roll off approach and being told to coach the students to the tests.
I remember ancient history I think falling off degree subjects and was appalled when a school teacher friend said it wasn’t important and we should focus on stem subjects. The greatest scientific advances utilise thought and creativity so it is short sighted for that as well. There’s so much more I could go on for pages, not sure what can actively be done about it anyway, but glad to see it brought up here - to my mind this is part of the overall problems and whilst not a conspiracy fan, it’s concerning we are training, not educating, generations to not think but just do 😞

I think you're making a wrong assumption.

Brexiteers weren't all ignorant of the likely consequences. But they believed them worth it.

They don't feel angry about being lied to, because they are just as capable of understanding the likely issues but still came to a different conclusion about what was best.

I think 'othering' is not helpful - assuming everyone who did XYZ is both thick and was duped isn't hugely accurate and certainly doesn't help,get us out the each part off the mess as it arrives

OP, i get your point.

Boris Johnson was one the highest profile, most prolific people presenting false information and lies to encourage the leave vote. When the vote went his way, with the resulting chaos, he went to ground.

He's now Prime Minster and unchallenged. It beggars belief, really.

@LarryTheLurker

FFS give it up about Brexit. That was five years ago. You lost, deal with it.

As for the Tories ... politicians lie, who knew?

I think this is your answer, many leave voters care more about being on the 'winning' team than their vote being the wrong one for most of the country.

If brexiters knew what would happen but thought it worth it, why was thier argument "it's just project fear " not " that's the price we are willing to pay "

Caveat I did know one brexiter who did say that at the time

The rest said i was lying or misled or foolish.

Dry your eyes

To be honest, if I were Labour I wouldn't want to inherit this country in the state it is in when they haven't had any real say over the bad choices made. They will only get blamed for it all by the Tories. Tories need to own their bad choices for a while, or they will never learn.

To be honest, if I were Labour I wouldn't want to inherit this country in the state it is in

Yes, you have a point.

Brexiteers weren't all ignorant of the likely consequences. But they believed them worth it.

I think you have a point as well. Maybe, that's it, Brexit is worth any price.
There has been polling showing that Leave voters and Tory members would be willing to see a return to violence in NI, the break up of the UK and their own adult children lose their livelihoods for Brexit. To me this then raises another question, why is it so important? If you know it's bad for the country, the peace and your own children? That's for a different thread maybe.

I don't know why more people aren't furoius at the number of people who reduce complex situations to simplistic rants based on zero knowledge just for approval of strangers on the internet. But hey ho

By the way I dont know a single "Brexiteer" (because the way they voted in a one-off referendum defines them totally), who wants hardship for their children, the return to violence or anything distressing and difficult for their future,

Oddly I don't know any "Remainers", "Tories", "Feminists", "Greens", "Cyclists", "Mums" or any other group that you could name as a "group" who want that either.

Ha Ha Ha is all I can say. (And now off to the office ....)

@Kendodd

To be honest, if I were Labour I wouldn't want to inherit this country in the state it is in

Yes, you have a point.

Plus people have argued that the Tories pinched some of Labours manifesto (not sure if I believe that myself) but if Labour believe it to be true, why come up with any ideas now if they are going to be taken and passed off as Tory ideas? It would be nice if they could all work together, but I think most of us think this country has been so poorly managed, nobody want to make life easier for the Tories. As I said before they need to own their shitty decisions.

@KikoLemons
who wants hardship for their children, the return to violence or anything distressing and difficult for their future,
Lots of people think it's a price worth paying.
www.businessinsider.com/poll-conservative-members-break-up-uk-destroy-party-stop-brexit-2019-6?r=US&IR=T

Leavers get so irate at even a whisper that Brexit might have started causing issues. It's utterly bizarre. My mum goes absolute off it if anyone even suggests it might be even a partial reason for worker shortages, and whatever else. I'm not saying that Brexit is responsible for everything but it evidently has made some situations worse-it's surely undeniable. Except to people that voted for it. I

@theworldsbiggestcrocodile

So BP said they might have to close 6 petrol stations due to lack of fuel for those 6 stations!

Out of thousands of stations in these country only 6 were having a problem

Spark a media frenzy over fuel shortage all because 6 stations would be shut because only BP has an issue and panicked people into buying thus causing the shortage that was never there.

This has nothing to do with brexit!

Its a self manifested fule shortage caused by media whipping up frenzy and stupid people falling for it, just like when covid happened and the media reported one supermarket having run out of toilet roll, headlines of you won't be able to get food stock up now crap when guess what happened the shops stayed open!

Unbelieveable how some people despite glaring facts to say otherwise refuse to admit they were wrong when they blame brexit

When that bus rolled onto Lemon Quay with the suggestion that we could fund the NHS it didn't say it would all go to the NHS. I can remember my dh chatting to Ian Hislop 30 years ago about Boris career and somewhat louche lifestyle. He used to say 'Let's hope he never goes into politics'.

Cameron was over confident on giving an in and out referendum, and far too many people voted for what they assumed would happen. In Cornwall a big issue was made about fishing but immediately in January the regulations regarding exporting prepared fish meant that many of these companies were unable to sell their fish.

Spectr8... and there's my case in point. I literally said 'I'm not saying Brexit has been responsible for everything but it has evidently made some situations worse'. Where did I say it was all down to Brexit?
Yep the media have played a huge part... but if it's NOTHING to do with Brexit, why are we reopening the visa schemes to foreign lorry drivers who left since Brexit to try and help out? Can you really see no slight correlation between driver shortages and that fact that lots of our drivers used to come from the EU and now can't (or don't want to)?

I manage care homes. Guess where lots of my workers came from? Guess where I can't get them from anymore? Guess when that started and why? Yes the sector is underfunded and there are myriad problems alongside but Brexit has been a huge factor. It's undeniable. But I'm sure leavers will try....exhausting.

Sunken cost fallacy.

Really, I think "compassion fatigue" hit many a long time ago on all sides and it's hard to get worked up when it feels like everything is just out for an emotional response with little action or purpose beyond that.

Nobody who voted Leave and Tory seems to be looking back and holding the liars to account.

I think that is the job of the opposition. And usually the media to a lesser extent.

How is a random resident posting here meant to 'hold them to account'? We're unlikely to get an election until it's due now. Protests have become fairly ineffective. Many are finding our MPs are less responsive.

What should we do and how will being angry help us do that?

For some reason they're not mad.

If you look at Reform Party (UKIP version 3 or so) or it's local parties websites, you can see what they're currently arguing for and again. They're still mad, they've just moved on to other questionable solutions.

To be honest, if I were Labour I wouldn't want to inherit this country in the state it is in when they haven't had any real say over the bad choices made.

Labour could have properly campaigned for Remain as well. They had a part of why it came across as wishywashy and dismissive of people's concerns.

Their choices around internal drama haven't been exactly stellar either.

That through previous elections, many have lost faith in them has been because of their bad choices and rinsing their hands of the current state of the UK means they haven't learned anything.

Tories need to own their bad choices for a while, or they will never learn.

The Tories that are in power are unlikely to deal with most of the consequences for their actions in their homes. Neither will much of any party really.

These aren't naughty children where giving extra chores will make them mend their ways - it's literally validating their ideology and way of doing things if they maintain power and control.

I live in a Brexit loving area. Local Fb groups that were previously all We won Get over it etc etc. are starting to slag off the current situation and are blaming it on Brexit. Brexiteers are losing the dressing room.

Well now there is an article in the daily mail about how there was no fuel crisis and it was born out fo the butterfly effect of basically panic buying lol and its probably from some remainers leaking a load of bollocks hahaha you couldn't make it up!

You remainers so intent on proving brexit was a shotshow you would destroy this country and for what.. to say I told you so!

@wanttomarryamillionaire

Because to your average voter Boris et al are still a better prospect than Labour! Labour are so out of touch with their roots and original voters its laughable! They will never win another GE until they realise what they have become.

This

Tories are the lesser of 2 evils. There is no other option. Best thing would be for the labour to split. The looney far left spin off and create their own party and let labour become more central ground. A central left party (without the extremists far left involved) would give a credible alternative.