To not understand why voters aren't angry about all the lies Tories and Brexiteers told them and the resulting mess they've created?

[Kendodd]

Voters still seem to love them and are absolutely welded to their vote despite the evidence all around them that they were lied to.
I would be absolutely furious with them if their lies had persuaded me to vote Leave and Tory.

Yanbu - I would be angry as well
Yabu - everything else

Wanted to also say, everything will settle down eventually. We will be back to normal, and we won't be under the control of the crappy EU!

@Blossomtoes

BP and the other companies want their slave labour back, rather than paying the existing drivers a decent wage.

This is such a ridiculous thing to say. They haven’t got enough existing drivers. They could pay them £100k a year and it wouldn’t make any difference. You can’t solve a skills shortage overnight by throwing money at it.

And why haven't they got enough drivers? Because the pay didn't match the hours, responsibilities and conditions.

The companies made no effort to recruit UK drivers when they knew they'd be losing their cheap, unfussy Eastern European drivers - now look at the incentives they're offering people to take up driving.....

Yeah let's not have a race to the bottom on wages becuaee one day it'll hit your i dusty too and you'll be the ones crying. Instead of racing to the bottom we should be fighting to improve standards of living and wages as a whole.

You wouldn't do that job would you! Let me see why the hours the pay judt not compatible with the way you wanna live life but hey its okay for other people right.

I'm not even a Tory, but seriously, who else can we vote for?

YABU OP.

@TrickorTreacle

I'm not even a Tory, but seriously, who else can we vote for?

YABU OP.

If you vote Tory, you're a Tory. No getting away from it.

I think you will find that thousands who voted Tory in the last election have been life long labour voters

Have you not heard of Labour’s Red Wall

Many people are floating voters. It absolutely does not make you a Tory if you voted for them in one or even a few elections

Many people voted for Thatcher many Tories didn’t feel she was a true Tory

The same with Tony Blair they voted for him being PM not necessarily because they have more left wing views on politics (well aware they didn’t need to be too left wing)

Right now I am more angry with Labour for making themselves impossible for me to vote for them anymore.

@Pinkspecs

Right now I am more angry with Labour for making themselves impossible for me to vote for them anymore.

@RobertaFirmino - the above post is where I was getting at. I'm not a Tory voter.

In which case, I apologise @TrickorTreacle.

@Kendodd

FFS give it up about Brexit.

Why?
We will be living with the consequences for decades, why shouldn't we talk about it?

Exactly the demon needs to be faced. People need to apologise for mucking things up for everyone.

Presumably, the Brexit voters want us to shut up about Brexit because having to confront the reality of what they have done makes them feel uncomfortable. Understandably.

@Andante57

Dee1975 Best thing would be for the labour to split

Gina Miller is starting a new party:
From Cityam

Anti-Brexit campaigner Gina Miller has announced plans to launch a new political party named True & Fair.

Miller today confirmed that she has submitted an application to the Electoral Commission to register as a political party in England and Wales which she intends to lead.

She said, “this Government needs to be held to account. Voters deserve better than the current politics of incompetence and self-interest.”

Gina Miller starting her own political party? 😂

Should be a laugh if nothing else!!! 😂

@SoupDragon

I voted remain and even I'm bored of all these threads now.

Me too. We lost. Get over it. We have to live with the situation as it is.

Should be a laugh if nothing else

Yes, I don’t see it becoming mainstream.

Ok we lost...do that means we should now pretend that everything is going oh so well...er no! The young mostly voted remain or had no say at all but they will inherit this mess.

We are definitely in a mess. I went to a supermarket yesterday and was genuinely unsettled by how many gaps there were on the shelves. And passed three petrol stations on the way, two of which were closed, one of which had no diesel. It's going to get worse I think now they've banned ID cards as proof of entry - I read 35% of EU lorry drivers don't have passports.

There are so many familiar themes on this thread aren't there. 'All politicians lie', 'we don't have an opposition', 'people lack critical thinking', 'you lost, get over it', 'it's been five years'. That's another way that we are in a mess - politics itself is a mess. How you sort that out I do not know. The social contract appears to be increasingly in tatters and there's little trust in evidence anywhere.

I think the lying now btw is off the charts compared to previous years, as is the corruption, and lack of competence and lack of forward planning. That's my main issue with Brexit, that it hasn't been done competently. Still isn't being done competently. The haulage industry were saying in June 'you need to do these things' to avoid a crisis. The government have only just done those things - too little, too late. No forward planning. Just like covid. And other people than them then pay the cost, just like covid :(

@MyPatronusIsACat

Wanted to also say, everything will settle down eventually. We will be back to normal, and we won't be under the control of the crappy EU!

Yay!!

'under the control of'. There's a lot you could unpack in that isn't there.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

OFFS.

I think Brexit was a stupid thing to do, but it’s not Labour were against it, so you can stop with only blaming the Conservatives for it.

It was the Tories' idea, their promise, so kind of like, yeah, it's all about them.

Yes, they called the referendum, but people across the political board campaigned and voted for it, and it's not like Labour were against it. Cameron, who was the PM at the time and a Tory, campaigned for Remain.

Stop gaslighting.

Also how it has been enacted and planned for (or not) was and is completely under the control of the Conservative Party. They own it.

It was enacted according to the negotiations with the EU, and they were not the easiest to negotiate with, and rightly so.

There is enough blame to go around.

The Conservative Party made active choices in those negotiations. I am not saying there were no constraints on negotiation outcomes - clearly there were, and always would be - but Theresa May for instance made an active choice to constrain freedom of movement and to leave to single market and customs union. What we are seeing now in shops directly flows from that choice. Her choice. That isn't necessarily 'Brexit'. She decided that's what Brexit meant, and the Conservative Party has spent four years not really doing anything to mitigate for the likely outcomes. And I say four years deliberately because that decision wasn't taken immediately. I remember it being when I started to get worried about what was going to happen.

Boris can own Brexit. He’s quite welcome to it.