School keeps taking away my daughter's shoe

[Dryrobeandnoknickers]

This week my Year 7 dd's school is running some baseline tests for them and on Friday we received a message from the school to let us know about these tests and ask that they bring in some headphones.

Neither dd or I own any headphones that would work with the laptop and I completely forgot to borrow some over the weekend.

On Monday during the first test she explained to the invigilator that she didn't have any, but luckily they had spares. She was told that she could borrow them in exchange for one of her shoes so "that she didn't steal them". This happened for several of the tests so she had to sit in the hall for several hours without a shoe and feels like she was being treated like a thief, and that it was humiliating.

She has now borrowed a pair of headphones for the rest of the week from a family member but chatting with some other parents this seems like a commonly used approach at the school.

I asked the school for their side of it and have just received a response saying "in the past we have loaned headphones to students and they have forgotten to return them and this has cost the school a substantial amount of money to replace them. We feel we have taken a light-hearted approach to loaning headphones to students who have forgotten to bring their own into school."

I'm pretty annoyed about how this was handled - my daughter felt it was degrading and that it not pitched in a light-hearted way but she was treated as though she might be a thief.

If I asked a colleague at the school I work at if I could borrow a pair of headphones and they asked me to give them my shoe in exchange I'd feel pretty frustrated about being treated like that too.

AIBU and this just how things work at secondary school and I'm being too precious and naïve about how to manage these things?

I know that its not the biggest of issues in the greater scheme of things but it has really grated on me and I really want to raise it with the school. Surely they'll get more out of the kids by treating them in a respectful way (which their behaviour policy states they should) and if/when there are any issues and they don't treat the school property with respect then they should be given a consequence and the parents should pay to replace them. Why not simply count out the 10 sets of headphones at the start of the test then count them back in at the end?

AIBU to challenge them on how they do this? I'm guessing an email from me isn't likely to change things but really feel I should say my piece.

Surely if they (re?)phrased it as being so she doesn’t forget to return them, it wouldn’t feel so accusatory? I don’t really see any problem but I do get how it might make kids with no money feel shtty, if they’re always sitting there with one shoe on.

Good idea I think

NumberTheory, I’d consider it my fault and make sure she had headphones to take in, like the OP should have done. (Any responsibility after that is my daughter’s.)
Many children are not trained to take responsibility for their own belongings, and many parents don’t seem that bothered either where I work, despite the high number of FSM. The aforementioned lost property collection often contains un-named brand new sweaters, jackets and coats, not necessarily new but often branded. What child/parent doesn’t notice they only have one Nike trainer?
Headphones are at least available cheaply. My niece’s state school has asked that all pupils buy a laptop from school at around £900. My sister can’t afford it, but they’ve offered to make it easier by allowing her to pay for it £30pm-doesn’t help much.
If not she will be lent school laptop whilst in school. The school loan ones are brightly coloured.

@Anitarest

NumberTheory, I’d consider it my fault and make sure she had headphones to take in, like the OP should have done. (Any responsibility after that is my daughter’s.) Many children are not trained to take responsibility for their own belongings, and many parents don’t seem that bothered either where I work, despite the high number of FSM. The aforementioned lost property collection often contains un-named brand new sweaters, jackets and coats, not necessarily new but often branded. What child/parent doesn’t notice they only have one Nike trainer? Headphones are at least available cheaply. My niece’s state school has asked that all pupils buy a laptop from school at around £900. My sister can’t afford it, but they’ve offered to make it easier by allowing her to pay for it £30pm-doesn’t help much. If not she will be lent school laptop whilst in school. The school loan ones are brightly coloured.

In which case she probably would not have had her shoe taken off her in the first place, since she had a parent wiling and able to provide, at short notice. This lesson you think the tactic teaches was not one that was possible to learn in the OP’s situation.

Your nieces state school want to take £30 a month from every parent’s pocket? And are coercing this by Othering the students whose parents don’t acquiesce? That is truly outrageous. I hope enough well off parents are brave enough to tell the school to stuff it so the ones who are struggling don’t have to feel like they’ve been branded.

Excellent idea, Parents today are way to precious. Your children are going to live in this world of hard knocks. What's handing over a shoe for an hour or two. I'll lay odds she wasn't the only one.

It’s wrong for children to be punished for parents transgressions. An 11 year old child is not responsible for assembling and buying kit. The school need to take a different approach with new starters.

If you go into a meeting at work and your pen stops working you don’t face disciplinary action as you do at school for not having a spare.

That being said to help my son who is very absent minded I did bulk order all the kit needed from the school supplier so that hopefully if lost something he wouldn’t ever run out…the initial cost outlay seems a lot but I worked out that it was a lot cheaper than replacing things individually as the year progressed.

A good school Senco department is happy to keep a supply provided by parents for students who may have organisational difficulties and even check each morning with the child. Schools just need to be kinder.

I've known lots of teachers who do this - I don't. I've trained the cleaners to put all discarded pens, rulers etc found on the floor into a box, not the bin, & all my students know that they can help themselves from the box, no questions asked. I top it up from the stationery store if it ever runs really low, but it seldom does! Kids are staggeringly careless with their stuff.

My dc attend the same school, & recently ds was offered the choice of surrendering his shoe or phone to borrow a calculator.

He handed over his phone because he'd double knotted his shoelaces & couldn't be arsed to undo them, then wandered off without it at the end of the lesson.

By the time he realised & had a chance to go back at the end of the day to reclaim his phone (& return the calculator from the bottom of his bag...) it had acquired a new screen crack.

I've told him to provide a bloody shoe next time...fairly sure none of my colleagues could manage to crack a size 12 Doc Marten....

It’s wrong for children to be punished for parents transgressions.

I agree. But taking a shoe off isn't a punishment. It's a reminder.

I don't like this at all. There are more appropriate ways of dealing with issues such as this and it seems immature and unprofessional. But there are many others on the thread who think it is acceptable. If your instinct tells you it's wrong, then it probably is. Acceptance silences the doubters.

Fwiw, the headteacher at my gs's primary school punished minor indiscretions by making the child stand up in front of the whole class and sing Rhianna's Under my Umbrella. My gs clearly knew this was weird because his instinct was to keep it from me. Some might believe humiliation was a mature and acceptable way of dealing with issues.

It’s a common thing. In covid times, who’d want kids wearing passed around headphones?

You are being mega precious you need to make sure you provide your daughter with the equipment required and then she won’t feel this level of humiliation and degradation as you so put it. It’s not down to the school to provide these kinds of things.

I actually think it's a good solution however if my shoe was taken my foot would be cold to a distracting level. Probably wouldn't forget my headphones again though.

I don't think it's a big issue at all. As a music teacher I was always loaning equipment and know the struggle of not getting it back. Or things I've loaned out being left in practice rooms for me to spend my lunch or after school tidying up. Your daughter won't have been the only one and their intent was not to humiliate anyone. It was just to make sure they get their headphones back. No kids care about their homework diaries or excersise books in their bags.

Yes you may have led a sheltered life..... footwear is for protection and if fire alarm goes off ? My son broke one of his toes in his classroom and that was with his shoes on.....

I daresay I'll be lambasted for this but I've done that this week.

One particular child (lovely kid) never, ever has any equipment. No pen, pencil etc. I told this whole group that if I had to lend someone equipment consistently then after the third time I'd ask for a shoe as deposit. They all thought it was hilarious (they're 13). This young man came to me this week and deposited his shoe on my desk in return for a full pencil case which he can use for the lesson. He thought it was funny, we had a laugh about it as a class and got on with the lesson. I like to have some fun with my classes but I would never insist or deliberately humiliate a child.

LordoftheThings- I wonder what he told his parents. You could be indirectly lambasted on here if they’re on GN

@Scottsy100

You are being mega precious you need to make sure you provide your daughter with the equipment required and then she won’t feel this level of humiliation and degradation as you so put it. It’s not down to the school to provide these kinds of things.

I really is down to the school. Demanding students turn up with equipment they’ve never needed before at a few days notice is not remotely reasonable.

If you were a decent parent you wouldn’t have ‘forgotten about the need for headphones’ stop blaming the school and take some responsibility for your own actions (or lack of them)

FF's sake! It's a shoe, not a humiliation. Humiliation is what the majority of grandparents endured on a regular basis at school. I've had my hair cut by the head nun for being too long. The cane for getting a spelling wrong, one swish for each mistake. Ridiculed for having sanitary pads in my satchel. I could go on forever. I can cope with just about anything life throws at me. I fear for your precious little kids, I really do.

Next time get your child the kit she needs.

@Leedsfan247

If you were a decent parent you wouldn’t have ‘forgotten about the need for headphones’ stop blaming the school and take some responsibility for your own actions (or lack of them)

To be fair, doesn't some of the responsibility lie with OP's dd. I'd certainly expect my 11 year old who is in her first year of high school to ensure she has all equipment (and to remind me if I needed to be involved in sourcing it)

I dont think headphones should be shared. My Ds caught an appalling outer ear fungal infection from sharing overthe ear headphones

@Anitarest I don't know what he would have told his parents, he probably didn't mention it. I don't think they particularly care if he has what he needs for school or not which is why he never has any equipment. He's a nice lad with a great sense of humour and he knows he can always get equipment from me if he needs it.

If it's a standard policy that everyone knows about and is commonly albeit occasionally applies I think it's reasonable, in response to the expense of losing too much equipment in the past. Kids aren't going to have a cash deposit and too much hassle to sort that with a parent.
Possibly it also acts as a deterrent to not be complacent about not bringing in requested equipment.

I think it is a great idea.