School keeps taking away my daughter's shoe

[Dryrobeandnoknickers]

This week my Year 7 dd's school is running some baseline tests for them and on Friday we received a message from the school to let us know about these tests and ask that they bring in some headphones.

Neither dd or I own any headphones that would work with the laptop and I completely forgot to borrow some over the weekend.

On Monday during the first test she explained to the invigilator that she didn't have any, but luckily they had spares. She was told that she could borrow them in exchange for one of her shoes so "that she didn't steal them". This happened for several of the tests so she had to sit in the hall for several hours without a shoe and feels like she was being treated like a thief, and that it was humiliating.

She has now borrowed a pair of headphones for the rest of the week from a family member but chatting with some other parents this seems like a commonly used approach at the school.

I asked the school for their side of it and have just received a response saying "in the past we have loaned headphones to students and they have forgotten to return them and this has cost the school a substantial amount of money to replace them. We feel we have taken a light-hearted approach to loaning headphones to students who have forgotten to bring their own into school."

I'm pretty annoyed about how this was handled - my daughter felt it was degrading and that it not pitched in a light-hearted way but she was treated as though she might be a thief.

If I asked a colleague at the school I work at if I could borrow a pair of headphones and they asked me to give them my shoe in exchange I'd feel pretty frustrated about being treated like that too.

AIBU and this just how things work at secondary school and I'm being too precious and naïve about how to manage these things?

I know that its not the biggest of issues in the greater scheme of things but it has really grated on me and I really want to raise it with the school. Surely they'll get more out of the kids by treating them in a respectful way (which their behaviour policy states they should) and if/when there are any issues and they don't treat the school property with respect then they should be given a consequence and the parents should pay to replace them. Why not simply count out the 10 sets of headphones at the start of the test then count them back in at the end?

AIBU to challenge them on how they do this? I'm guessing an email from me isn't likely to change things but really feel I should say my piece.

I take something if I loan out in a classroom - usually a phone or return bus ticket. It is usually met with bemusement but I don’t recall ever having a refusal. I wouldn’t dream of taking a shoe.

I think it's a clever idea.

Children are easily distracted and many of them obviously forgotten to return the headphones, probably because something else captured their attention. The likelihood of them leaving with only one shoe is vanishingly small. The lack of a shoe will act as a reminder, and directs their focus towards ensuring the headphones are returned.

If your daughter felt singled out as a potential thief you need to explain to her that the shoe ransom is designed as a very forceful reminder, and has been brought in precisely because so many other children have absentmindedly wandered off with school property that has then been lost.

Fgs how is taking off a shoe humiliating? I think it's a great idea and I've seen it done in schools. The kids usually think it's quite funny at first, then they get used to it. It's not just for stopping deliberate theft, it's done because it's easy to forget you've borrowed a pen/calculator/headphones and walk off with them accidentally. It's not so easy to forget you're only wearing one shoe! So no, it doesn't mean they are branding your child a thief.

@Sprocket1

For a child whose parents are struggling financially and can not afford headphones I think it singled them out and I would be annoyed too

It's more likely to single out lazy arsed parents & kids who can't be bothered to prepare for the school day.....

Ringing any bells?

I’m amazed that this is accepted as ok.
It’s not funny or jokey.
Yes it is a reminder you have borrowed something that needs to be returned, but there must be other ways to answer this situation.

What about the children who simply do t have earphones? Who have holes in their shoe ? who haven’t got clean socks on? This is humiliating and yet again divides the haves from the have nots.

Aside from the safety side of things it’s just not ok to do this.

@Maltedmilkdrinks all the things you mention to do with working from home, teachers did too for extended periods last year. Laptops (if they didn't have one), stands, mics, printers - some schools may have provided but none that I know of. The travelling and lunches would not apply to teachers that is true. I don't think a discussion was being had about teachers working harder or longer hours than anyone else? So no need to tell us we don't.
Guide leaders will come from the ranks of teachers as well as any other occupations. I do think working from home will lead to a lot more expenses for many people that they wouldn't have had in the past - some savings too of course especially in the wardrobe department!

You can’t compare how you would feel as an adult because your daughter isn’t an adult. Kids forget things, headphones go missing as a result. Kids aren’t always able to think of the consequences of not returning the headphones (cost and hassle for the school to replace them), they don’t have the brain development of adult logic.
Swapping the headphones for a shoe is a lighthearted and very practical solution to ensure the kids don’t forget to return them (because they won’t walk away with one show on) and also to make them bring their own if they didn’t like wearing one shoe.

It’s up to parents to support schools as they have feck all money to keep replacing items. It’s also up to us to teach our kids that their actions have consequences and if they don’t like the consequences then change their actions.

would you rather school asked you to put £50 deposit down in case not returned, same thing. Schools do far worse than thist o teach your children so i suggest you have a word with your child about rules and not being vindicated by year 11 - they will have far worse stories

The absolute SHIT I’ve heard since my daughter started secondary a few weeks ago is ridiculous and this scenario you describe does not surprise me!!! State school is a farce. I’m disgusted and angry daily.

@Tailendofsummer
There was an OP about evening and weekend work on top of out of pocket expenses. But agree not relevant to this debate.
Would seem whoever is right (maybe everyone depending), there really is a disconnect between what these days a lot of parents think is fair and what teachers think is effective and also fair.
In the past parents didn't question teachers. Many of us have desperate stories from our youth that explain why we are now so troubled by any disciplining behaviour or punitive measures, even if they're actually ok.

If I had known that it was something she needed at secondary school in advance of her starting I would have saved up to buy her some
I think this is more important than the shoe thing and that is what I would be complaining about.

If it was my DC, I'd be encouraging them to shake it off and move on.

She needed headphones, she was able to borrow them. An adult made an unfortunate remark about "its so you don't steal them". Its quite certain that the school would rather they didn't say things like that, but there will always be daft people around who say the wrong thing. It sounds like a throwaway comment, annoying but probably some witticism this person makes all the time.
Your daughter knows this person was wrong and that she's not a thief. You've told the school, so its done.

YANBU. This isn’t ok. Personally, I would complain.

1. fire safety issue
2. humiliating which is a problem in itself but also counter productive to learning
3. likely to highlight disadvantage and disproportionately affect pupils from more disadvantaged backgrounds

Doesn't feel very ethical

Am I being dappy here, why can't they simply take her NAME down?? We had a severe fire incident at my school in bucks a few years back, if a child has to then walk outside with only one shoe, this could cause problems. What a ridiculous idea.
Take their names, and call them at the end to hand them in. Some folk in schools these days are thick as $hit.

Yanbu. I don’t think it is funny. I think there’s a massive difference between eg an adult choosing to go to a bar and choosing to have a drink and choosing to leave a shoe in exchange, versus a female child having to go to school and having to do a test and being ordered to remove a piece of clothing in exchange. If she felt disempowered degraded and humiliated by the school then that should be reported to the school. You don’t have to be angry about it just put in a written complaint saying you find it inappropriate and how your daughter felt.

I do understand that the school can’t just lend headphones though, I expect children steal or lose them. A better solution would be for the school to find a way to assess children that doesn’t require the child to bring something from home.

Sounds like a great creative school - get the kid some headphones If she’s so humiliated.

@Shamrockcandy

Let's hope nothing gets dropped on the pupils feet. It is completely inappropriate and could be dangerous

These what-ifs are hilarious! I'm having trouble thinking of what could fall on a pupil's foot while they're sitting at a desk with headphones on. Maybe I've just led a sheltered life

Your child needs headphones for Y7 just as much as a calculator or pen. I think the school is being very fair to not sanction your child for continually not having headphones.

@Vinomummyinlockdown

The absolute SHIT I’ve heard since my daughter started secondary a few weeks ago is ridiculous and this scenario you describe does not surprise me!!! State school is a farce. I’m disgusted and angry daily.

Send them to private, you have a choice, tbh? What a silly comment.

I think that's totally fair. Your point of asking a colleague for a shoe is a silly comparison in my opinion. Not the same at all. Asking for a shoe is a light hearted way of ensuring they receive the loaned headphones back. If this happened my daughter I'd make sure she had a set of headphones the very next day!

I have done this in the past when lending pens /rulers/gluesticks/calculators because the child has forgotten their own.
It's not because I thought the child would purposefully steal the item, but simply because in the rush for them to pack up and get to next lesson (no changeover time and large campus) both I and the student would forget and they would leave with the item I lent them. The presence of a size 9 shoe on my desk served as a reminder to ask for my ruler back. Some students I only saw once a fortnight so if they left with the item I generally didn't get it back.
The items I lent were my own personal belongings bought from my pocket.
I did also buy a stash of pens and pencils which I would just give to students where I suspected they wouldn't get a new one from home anytime soon.

The presence of a size 9 shoe on my desk served as a reminder to ask for my ruler back

But the biggest reminder is to the child, no one would forget and walk out the classroom without realizing they are missing their shoe. I think it's brilliant reminder, as a parent. If you take away phones, planner, tie, etc, there's still the chance the child can walk away without remembering.

Then buy her her own ear phones! How embarrassing for your child. Shit mum.

Hmm I don’t know it was unreasonable, both shoes are confiscated at the door of many people’s houses and no-one has ever suggested a health and safety issue for the shoeless or humiliation about feet on here before! Sorry she was upset tho, teachers can have wry humour and she obviously felt awkward about not having made sure she had the headphones. Good if she starts using checklists, she could have reminded you she needed them. Unfortunately schools don’t seem give much notice, but Friday to Monday is not too bad.