School keeps taking away my daughter's shoe

[Dryrobeandnoknickers]

This week my Year 7 dd's school is running some baseline tests for them and on Friday we received a message from the school to let us know about these tests and ask that they bring in some headphones.

Neither dd or I own any headphones that would work with the laptop and I completely forgot to borrow some over the weekend.

On Monday during the first test she explained to the invigilator that she didn't have any, but luckily they had spares. She was told that she could borrow them in exchange for one of her shoes so "that she didn't steal them". This happened for several of the tests so she had to sit in the hall for several hours without a shoe and feels like she was being treated like a thief, and that it was humiliating.

She has now borrowed a pair of headphones for the rest of the week from a family member but chatting with some other parents this seems like a commonly used approach at the school.

I asked the school for their side of it and have just received a response saying "in the past we have loaned headphones to students and they have forgotten to return them and this has cost the school a substantial amount of money to replace them. We feel we have taken a light-hearted approach to loaning headphones to students who have forgotten to bring their own into school."

I'm pretty annoyed about how this was handled - my daughter felt it was degrading and that it not pitched in a light-hearted way but she was treated as though she might be a thief.

If I asked a colleague at the school I work at if I could borrow a pair of headphones and they asked me to give them my shoe in exchange I'd feel pretty frustrated about being treated like that too.

AIBU and this just how things work at secondary school and I'm being too precious and naïve about how to manage these things?



I know that its not the biggest of issues in the greater scheme of things but it has really grated on me and I really want to raise it with the school. Surely they'll get more out of the kids by treating them in a respectful way (which their behaviour policy states they should) and if/when there are any issues and they don't treat the school property with respect then they should be given a consequence and the parents should pay to replace them. Why not simply count out the 10 sets of headphones at the start of the test then count them back in at the end?

AIBU to challenge them on how they do this? I'm guessing an email from me isn't likely to change things but really feel I should say my piece.

[CatsnCoffee]

I would question the policy of having tests that require equipment (other than pen/pencil). If it is essential then the school should provide them for everyone. I’d hoped we’d moved on from teachers singling out a child who’s parents cannot or will not provide equipment years ago.
Public humiliation is never light-hearted!

[Tigertigertigertiger]

I think it’s a cool idea !

[NumberTheory]

liveforsummer

To be fair, doesn't some of the responsibility lie with OP's dd. I'd certainly expect my 11 year old who is in her first year of high school to ensure she has all equipment (and to remind me if I needed to be involved in sourcing it)

An 11 year old should nag her parents to get equipment that they can't afford?

[liveforsummer]

@NumberTheory

liveforsummer

To be fair, doesn't some of the responsibility lie with OP's dd. I'd certainly expect my 11 year old who is in her first year of high school to ensure she has all equipment (and to remind me if I needed to be involved in sourcing it)

An 11 year old should nag her parents to get equipment that they can't afford?

OP said they were able to borrow the headphones but forgot. Yes an 11 year old could have reminded her over the weekend. No mention of affording or not.

[barnetparent]

I'm on your side with this narrow minded approach.
My first reaction is to ask why the school SLT has not notified the parents of this new 'shoe as collateral' policy'.
If this policy is indicative of the lack of parent/school communication, I would want to reassure myself that my child is receiving a good solid education, rather than being penalised for something beyond their control.
We had a problem with our child's primary school, where a relatively new head teacher, continued with a 'shoeless learning' policy.
It infuriated me when my child contracted a foot disease as a result.
Worse still was the fact that policy conveniently didn't apply to teachers and every approach was met with a staunch response that it was scientifically proven to improve learning.
On several occasions the children were forced to hurry to the playground on fire drills, even in the rain, wearing only their socks.

My experience was with our school that it was a pointless exercise complaining as the SLT and Governor's closed ranks. It has only recently been addressed when 2 parents, a head teacher of another school and a journalist parent, decided to take the matter to court.

[user1471447863]

I don't think it is an appropriate thing to be doing. There's many other ways of tracking issued items - write their name in the corner of the blackboard - have an equipment sign out & sign in book - hold their homework diary etc.
As for you forgetting to claim them at the end of lesson, well that's on you isn't it? You are in charge, the bell is for you not for them, nobody leaves class untill instructed by you. And part of your end of lesson procedure should be checking in of leant items (amongst the umpteen other things you do).

I see the usual mockers of the "what if the fire alarm went off" scenario and such like have chimed in. Yes it is an unlikely scenario and in over 99% of cases likely to be a false alarm but can you sit there and honestly say that you would be happy to be standing in front of the man with the curly wig and explaining why the subject of the enquiry only had 1 shoe on, and justifying how this was the best and a proportionate solution to whatever issue you had? I wouldn't.

[NeverDropYourMooncup]

@NumberTheory

liveforsummer

To be fair, doesn't some of the responsibility lie with OP's dd. I'd certainly expect my 11 year old who is in her first year of high school to ensure she has all equipment (and to remind me if I needed to be involved in sourcing it)

An 11 year old should nag her parents to get equipment that they can't afford?

As the OP said that

1. They both have headphones that wouldn't work with the laptops, that means they have bluetooth ones, which are considerably more expensive than a set from the Poundshop.

1. She forgot to do anything about it over the weekend.

I don't think there's any issues with money there, just organisation and then oversensitivity possibly because OP believes they're not That Sort of Family over a measure that has come about because theft is a continual presence in schools irrespective of financial status.

[NumberTheory]

@liveforsummer and @NeverDropYourMooncup

The OP also said, in her second post:

If I had known that it was something she needed at secondary school in advance of her starting I would have saved up to buy her some but I don't have the luxury of being able to just Amazon Prime some to turn up the next day this month.

Not everyone has a poundshop nearby that's stocked with headphones and for some people, if it's just before pay day, even that isn't an option.

[threatmatrix]

No wonder kids nowadays think they are so special.

[ChloeDecker]

[quote NumberTheory]**@liveforsummer* and @NeverDropYourMooncup*

The OP also said, in her second post:

If I had known that it was something she needed at secondary school in advance of her starting I would have saved up to buy her some but I don't have the luxury of being able to just Amazon Prime some to turn up the next day this month.

Not everyone has a poundshop nearby that's stocked with headphones and for some people, if it's just before pay day, even that isn't an option.[/quote]
saved up to buy her some implies the OP assumed headphones were expensive. I’ve posted early on in the thread that Amazon do headphones for £2+ next day delivery and yes bluetooth headphones/earphones cost more, which the OP has. The OP also admitted she just forgot to organise in a different post….

[liveforsummer]

[quote NumberTheory]**@liveforsummer* and @NeverDropYourMooncup*

The OP also said, in her second post:

If I had known that it was something she needed at secondary school in advance of her starting I would have saved up to buy her some but I don't have the luxury of being able to just Amazon Prime some to turn up the next day this month.

Not everyone has a poundshop nearby that's stocked with headphones and for some people, if it's just before pay day, even that isn't an option.[/quote]
That's irrelevant seeing OP was able to borrow the headphones but simply forgot. I was responding to the posts from pp's saying that was all her fault. I just thought surely the dd need to take some responsibility and learn a lesson from it too. If she'd reminded her mum at the weekend she'd have kept her shoes on her feet. Cost didn't need to come in to it.

[NumberTheory]

@ChloeDecker
saved up to buy her some implies the OP assumed headphones were expensive. I’ve posted early on in the thread that Amazon do headphones for £2+ next day delivery and yes bluetooth headphones/earphones cost more, which the OP has. The OP also admitted she just forgot to organise in a different post….

You have to spend a lot more than 2 quid to get free next day delivery. And Amazon's next day delivery is, in any case, frequently not before Monday when you order on a Friday night. Those headphones you highlighted currently show an earliest delivery date of Wednesday.

On top of which, plenty of people live payday to payday. Even 2 quid can be too much at the wrong time of the month.

@liveforsummer
That's irrelevant seeing OP was able to borrow the headphones but simply forgot. I was responding to the posts from pp's saying that was all her fault. I just thought surely the dd need to take some responsibility and learn a lesson from it too. If she'd reminded her mum at the weekend she'd have kept her shoes on her feet. Cost didn't need to come in to it.

If it was weeks away when she told her, it would be reasonable to expect her to follow up. But if she's told her mum she needs something on the Friday night and she knows they don't have much spare money, I don't think she is being irresponsible to not nag her mum about it. Of course cost comes into it. The dd didn't necessarily know the plan to get some. She will feel the pressure of not being well off. It's unfair to expect her to push her mother when it's an item they simply don't have.

As it was OP had to borrow some off a colleague in work, so there may not have been a way to get any for Monday or Tuesday in any case.

[Monz77]

It’s an across-the-board policy and not targeted. Explain their reasons to your daughter, how the school loses a lot of money due to unreturned headphones and how this is an effective way of ensuring the return of loaned-out pairs. Don’t catastrophize it.

[liveforsummer]

As it was OP had to borrow some off a colleague in work, so there may not have been a way to get any for Monday or Tuesday in any case.

OP says^ 'and I completely forgot to borrow some over the weekend.^'

And also 'She has now borrowed a pair of headphones for the rest of the week from a family member'

You're inventing things now to try and make your point and adding drama where there was none. Surely the convo on Friday just needed to be
'Mum we need headphones on Monday'
'Ok dd we'll borrow some off uncle Ernie as ours are fancy blue tooth things that don't work with lap top'
Sunday comes and dd realises they haven't been to uncle Ernies yet so reminds mum. No nagging, no pressure, no money angst just a high school student taking a bit of responsibility for their school needs

[Rocklobstershell]

I actually think it’s a genius idea if done in the right tone - children at that age can be absent minded and might either forget to hand the headphones back in leaving them on the desk or unintentionally pack them into their bag after the test with the rest of their stuff. This way they will remember as soon as they stand up.

[londonrach]

What a great idea...the child can't leave without the shoe so headphones get returned

[BucketFullOfDinosaurs]

Do schools still have stationary stores where pupils can go to buy equipment? We had one which opened at break time; you could buy pens, maths equipment (compasses etc) and things like that.

I imagine something like that would help in this situation; if you need equipment at short notice, you can just send in money and your child can buy it in school. Presumably these days there's even an app for money, so DC can text parents and say "I need to buy headphones from the stationary store, can you add £5 to my school account?".

Don't know whether these things still exist, though!

[noblegiraffe]

We used to have a stationery store. Tory school budget cuts led to staff cuts which means that we don't anymore.

[Mamazoras]

I am absolutely mortified to see how many insensitive and unkind grown ups surround our children! This is not a way to teach a child to be responsible, it is downgrading and humiliating. Sorry for your DD.

[Dryrobeandnoknickers]

@liveforsummer

As it was OP had to borrow some off a colleague in work, so there may not have been a way to get any for Monday or Tuesday in any case.

OP says^ 'and I completely forgot to borrow some over the weekend.^'

And also 'She has now borrowed a pair of headphones for the rest of the week from a family member'

You're inventing things now to try and make your point and adding drama where there was none. Surely the convo on Friday just needed to be
'Mum we need headphones on Monday'
'Ok dd we'll borrow some off uncle Ernie as ours are fancy blue tooth things that don't work with lap top'
Sunday comes and dd realises they haven't been to uncle Ernies yet so reminds mum. No nagging, no pressure, no money angst just a high school student taking a bit of responsibility for their school needs

Just to clarify, I received an email on Friday asking to provide the headphones on Monday. DD hadn’t been told so she couldn’t remind me so the responsibility sat solely with me.

No we don’t have fancy Bluetooth headphones - just 2 pairs of standard in ear headphones with a different input Jack.

I’m grateful the school let my dd borrow it however I feel there could a better way.
I’m not blaming the school, I’m questioning the approach, as a proportion of people (as highlighted is the split of responses on here) would find it unduly unsettling. This is not because they have no resilience or are moddlycoddled snowflakes. This is for very real reasons which I feel are not yet well understood by a large proportion of those who have not experienced them.

In response to those who have said I’m a shit mum, I’m not. I’m just someone who made a simple mistake and didn’t expect the school to use that tactic. My dd is a tough cookie who knows her own mind and feels strong enough to share and articulate her feelings- I’m not going to tell her what she feels is silly. I am however going to make sure she can see both sides of the situation and understands why.

Thanks for all the responses so far. I know that ultimately it is my fault she didn’t have the headphones. However, as someone who is experienced in how schools are managed and how to make them an inclusive, respectful setting I am going to contact the school. Not to have a go at them, but to discuss the situation further as I have a valid concern.

[LordOfTheThings]

Do schools still have stationary stores where pupils can go to buy equipment? We had one which opened at break time; you could buy pens, maths equipment (compasses etc) and things like that.

We used to but not anymore. At the start of term we were each given a box with ten pens, ten pencils, ten rulers, rubbers etc. That was all gone by day 4. You ask the children to return anything that they borrow at the end of the lesson but they don't. Everything else is equipment that I buy myself.

Someone upthread (who has clearly never been in a classroom with thirty 13 year olds) said that part of the end of lesson procedure should be counting in and borrowed equipment - if I did that I would have to stop every lesson ten minutes before the end to 'count' it all back in. I wouldn't be able to deal with the child who is struggling with the work, or upset about falling out with their friend. I wouldn't be able to deal with that incident between children that needs dealing with asap. 'Sorry Jimmy, I know you're upset because you don't understand the work, but I need to count my pencils back in so too bad'.

You'd think that parents would a) ensure their children were equipped for school and b) teach them to return something that they have borrowed rather than just keep it. They don't. 🤷

[LordOfTheThings]

I don't think you're a shit mum at all OP. I don't disagree with the schools approach either, but like with anything, it depends how it's done. If it's done in a way that the child feels part of the 'joke' and not the butt of it, then that's fair enough. Not if it's done in a way to humiliate a child though.

[HelpNeedCoolUsername8]

@LordOfTheThings

I don't think you're a shit mum at all OP. I don't disagree with the schools approach either, but like with anything, it depends how it's done. If it's done in a way that the child feels part of the 'joke' and not the butt of it, then that's fair enough. Not if it's done in a way to humiliate a child though.

I can see your point about it depending how it’s done, but I also think it depends on the child. There certainly are children who wouldn’t be bothered, but there are also those who would, whatever the tone. It’s also extremely hard to ensure every teacher gets the right “tone” if it’s a blanket approach. That’s why I think it’s inappropriate and would be ashamed to work in a school where this was the policy.

[Camblewick]

That’s why I think it’s inappropriate and would be ashamed to work in a school where this was the policy.

@HelpNeedCoolUsername8 well so would I. If that were an actual school policy I would find that utterly ridiculous. However, on the occasions that I've done it, it's been with pupils with whom I have a great relationship and I know them well. Of course it depends on the child, I would think that's fairly obvious. I wouldn't dream of suggesting it with a more sensitive child, nor have I ever insisted or demanded that a child give me their shoe. We all build relationships with our children in different ways, I like to have fun with mine and they also absolutely know there the line is that they shouldn't cross. I imagine you have a different style of teaching than I do and that's fine.

[lazylinguist]

I mentioned this thread to my dc. They were pretty sceptical at the idea that kids would find this humiliating or think it was being implied they would deliberately steal an item from the teacher. They said some teachers do it, some don't, and nobody seems remotely bothered.