Page 3 | Grandparents providing childcare

inthegutter · 02/12/2007 23:05

I think that's really judgemental Oblomov.One afternoon a week is NOT nothing. It's a regular commitment to look after two young and probably quite energetic children. And there's the pressure of feeling that if she can't manage a week, then it messes her daughter around at work. She may be a fantastic grandparent for all we know, who's willing to give time and energy in all kinds of other ways. There are all kinds of childcare available - CMs, nurseries etc which are there to provide reliable and regular care. Let grandparents enjoy their grandchildren without strings being attached.

expatinscotland · 02/12/2007 23:07

my ILs are too infirm to look after the DDs, but we've only moved this far from them temporarily so we can afford to move back closer in a couple of years time.

regardless of whether they can sit for the girls or not, it's important to us that our children have a relationship with their kindred.

expatinscotland · 02/12/2007 23:08

It's ONE afternoon a week! Not 15 to life.

She didn't expect it, but I think it's sad, tbh.

The way people see their own family as a burden and hinderance if it in any way interferes with their precious 'me' time.

inthegutter · 02/12/2007 23:15

expat - i think you're wrong to suggest that a grandparent isn't committed to their family just because they may not want to sign themselves up for regular duties. I certainly don't see bringing up my kids as a 'prison sentence', I love it, but equally, I may not necessarily want to spend my later years providing care for my grandchildren. What is wrong with grandparents having a special relationship with their grandchildren? Why the heck are you comparing it to a bar of chocolate???!!!! Grandparents don't normally 'drop' their grandchildren because they 'don't like the flavour'!! What a bizarre idea! I think family relationships should be based on mutual respect, they should be about wanting to spend time together and enjoying it, not about an obligation.

LaDiDaDi · 02/12/2007 23:19

I'm very lucky to have parents who look after dd 4 days each week for us so that DP and I can both work fulltime. It is an enormous commitment from them but they volunteered to do it, even refusing my suggestion of a part-time arrangement with nursery or childminder. when dd is a bit bigger she will go to nursey one day per week for the social aspect of it but for now my parents do an excellent job of caring for her.

Threads like this really make me appreciate my parents.

expatinscotland · 02/12/2007 23:22

I think you're wrong to tell people they're wrong just because they have a different viewpoint to yours, inthegutter.

I'm not white or British and I have a different perspective to family life.

I don't see providing regular care as a hinderance on my freedom and me time.

I see it as quite the opposite.

I come from a family who wouldn't think twice about this, especially for only one afternoon, and would see it as helping their daughter better herself in a job she enjoys rather than a restriction on their freedoms.

And rather than thinking it's explicitly 'wrong', I find it a sad and selfish perspective viewpoint to see helping out my kids with their kids for a few hours a week as an 'obligation' or some sort of millstone.

I certainly hope not to pass on such a view to my kids.

We're a family first.

expatinscotland · 02/12/2007 23:24

It's also base and not very well thought out.

'You don't agree with me, so you're wrong.'

inthegutter · 02/12/2007 23:27

Exactly LaDiDaDi - you've found an arrangement which works for you all - your parents are obviously happy to give over 4 days a week, and are not going to take offence at your very sensible idea of wanting some nursery time for the social interaction as she gets older. And you acknowledge that you are very lucky to have found an arrangement that suits. But the fact is, your situation is quite exceptional - most grandparents wouldnt be able to take on such a commitment for all sort of reasons. These days many grandparents are still working themselves! Or they may want the freedom to book holidays when it suits them rather than you, or go off for a cosy lunch together etc. I don't see what is selfish about that, as expat is claiming. Time and commitment should be given voluntarily- and no one has a right to expect these things. And as I said before, grandparents can be wonderful in all sorts of ways, not just as free childcare providers. My parents are wonderful with my kids, and even now they are in their teens, my kids always want to go and visit and stay with them. They've never taken their grandparents forgranted and I'm sure that's in part to it being a special relationship that isnt' about the nitty gritty of day to day life.

mollymawk · 02/12/2007 23:28

expat, that's a very interesting point. The general assumption in our society seems to be that parents have no obligations to their children once the children are grown up, but I'm not sure I agree with that. I'm sure I will feel that I have some "duty" to help my children basically forever (subject to health, abilities etc etc). And I will also have a duty to help my parents when they are old and frail and need me. Even if I don't want to. I guess the question arises of how far people "ought" to go to help their children and that must be a question for debate. But I can't agree with suggestions that they have no duty to do anything they don't feel like.

Oblomov · 02/12/2007 23:28

INTHEGUTTER, I think you calling me judgemental is unfair and harsh.

inthegutter · 02/12/2007 23:30

oh and expat, I don't get the reference to white and british at all. Why is this relevant? I havent a clue as to the ethnicity of the OP, and you don't have a clue as to mine. I don't think people with different views to mine are 'wrong' - I simply pointed out that a grandparent not agreeing to provide regular childcare does NOT equate to family breakdown/lack of care/lack of commitment.

Oblomov · 02/12/2007 23:31

Inthegutter - when you said "I think family relationships should be based on mutual respect, they should be about wanting to spend time together and enjoying it, not about an obligation"
that is the point that Expat and I are making.
That it is sad that she doesn't want to.
That is my only point. Not that it is expected. Just sad that she doesn't want to.

Oblomov · 02/12/2007 23:36

Inthegutter is missing the point. The OP said she did not 'expect' it. She was jsust sad that her Mum did not want to.
Inthegutter KEEPS missing this point.

inthegutter · 02/12/2007 23:36

Maybe the woman in question IS very happy to spend time with her grandchildren, and WOULD enjoy it. That doesn't seem to be the issue! The issue is that she has declined making a commitment to looking after them on a specific afternoon every week. She may have all sorts of reasons for this. Maybe she worries about her ability to cope with two little ones. Maybe she worries that if something else crops up, she'll be dropping her daughter in the poo, and so a nursery arrangement would be safer.It doesn't make her selfish to have made this decision! I just really object to this concept that caring and respecting our families means agreeing to something we don't feel will work.

inthegutter · 02/12/2007 23:38

I know that in society today it is easy to expect grandparents to take on childcare of their grandchildren when they are perfectly within their rights to wish to enjoy their retirement at a leisurely pace without having to be tied to a regular childcare commitment, however, that said I still feel that she is being unreasonable.
The OP says she is sad - she also states clearly that she feels her mother is 'unreasonable'.

expatinscotland · 02/12/2007 23:40

Um, because as I stated in the same sentence, gutter, I am white and not British and thus have a different view of family life other than 'I brought my kids up, now I'm off to put my feet up! Sink or swim.'

My definition of family is very broad and includes extended family.

I don't see what you mean by grandparents should have a 'special' relationship with their grandkids meaning they just have it all on their terms.

And I do think the attitude that once you're done raising your kids it's some sort of burden to help out with their kids as a breakdown of the family.

I think it's really, really sad.

expatinscotland · 02/12/2007 23:41

It's an all-too-frequent occurrence with some posters, Ob.

inthegutter · 02/12/2007 23:43

'I am white and not British and thus have a different view of family life other than 'I brought my kids up, now I'm off to put my feet up! Sink or swim.''

Words fail me! I am absolutely not responding to a post that shows such racial prejudice!
I'll retire now - perhaps someone else will feel able to respond to this.

sb6699 · 02/12/2007 23:45

It does seem a bit sad that she is unwilling just for one afternoon but have you asked her the reasons behind her refusal?

My grandmother was working 2 afternoons a week when DS was small and was considering giving it up. I asked if she would think about looking after DS instead and that we would pay her more. When she refused I was a bit hurt but didn't raise it again as I felt it was her choice and didn't want to cause any rifts as we are very close.

Later she explained that she wasn't financially able to give up work completely but would have felt guilty taking money from us for looking after him.

Your mum may have reasons of her own but ultimately is it worth falling out over?

Desiderata · 02/12/2007 23:46

It's very sad that your mum, Miggins, doesn't want the responsibility. You might more reasonably expect it of an MIL (perhaps), but it must be hard to take when it's your own mum. Are you sure she doesn't want to? Has she said it in black and white terms, or is there an emotional blindness that maybe makes you misread her intentions?

I see both sides, as many people have on this thread. 1 and 3 year olds! What a pain in the arse

Expat, much as I love you, your argument is weakened by the very fact that you have moved away from your family. I don't know the reasons for that, for sure, and I'm sure they're very good reasons. But there's no need to get aggressive about the importance of family, and to associate familial frigidity with white people, when yours are on the other side of the pond.

Oblomov · 02/12/2007 23:46

Thanks expat. I thought my post was pretty 'middle of the road' unoffensive' yet I was called judgemental, straight away. Oooh eeeer missus, that dont aff get my goat'
Calm down Obly.

Oblomov · 02/12/2007 23:47

Racial predjudice ?
Where did that old chesnut com from ?

filippo · 02/12/2007 23:54

Since when has racial prejudice been an 'old chestnut' oblomov? I agree with some of expat's views, but there is no doubt about it, her suggestion that white british people bring their children up and then go off and put their feet up, IS racist. It totally weakens her argument and is pretty offensive imo.

expatinscotland · 03/12/2007 00:33

oh, PLEASE, inthegutter!

is that the best you can do?!

since you've been here, you've been one of the most judgemental, narrow-minded people on the board.

des, i don't live near my family, therefore somehow that weakens my argument that a family is about mucking in? gimme a break!

i left because a bad divorce left me struggling with alcoholism and contemplating suicide, just so you know. AA wasn't working for me, so i took the radical step of leaving everything behind to try to save my life from the bottle. not that there was much to leave behind, i made a complete mess of it in the year before i left.

now, i can't go back because there's no way i'd get health insurance to cover my daughter's special needs and my depression.

but you know, you're right, any thread where certain posters appear is best left alone, because it only goes one way and becomes tiresome.

Miggins, i wish you luck in your search for childcare.

drosophila · 03/12/2007 01:00

I know I would help my kids with their children (if they have any) if I am well enough because I love them and it is very tough having kids with no support.

Grandparents are important in the bringing up of children. I expect that if and when oyour Mum becomes infirm and in need of support (if that happens) you would be there for her.