AIBU to think that the American, British and others should return to liberate the Afghani people?

[GreatEelRun]

I don’t usually do politics but my God, this situation is unacceptable. The US, the UK and whoever else was previously involved in the past 20- year restructure of Afghanistan need to return there right now, with additional support and get rid of the Taliban and Isis, no matter how long this takes.

I am utterly disgusted with our govt. The way I see it. we can return now and deal with it, or return in a few years after it’s been brought onto our own soil.

Where is the humanity in this crisis?

There has been strife in Afghanistan since the 13th century. Nothing will ‘cure’ it as there are multiple factions and tribes other than the taliban that all have their own agendas and disputes. Western forces wading in I’d just another agenda adding to so many others. I think we need to drop the ‘Western saviour complex’ as it is not going to get anywhere. Plus ‘liberate’ the afghans? Even the most moderate Afghans are likely to be very out of sync with our western ideologies. Even the relative freedoms they enjoyed in recent years would have been orchestrated carefully under the Islamic patriarch. I think we have to accept that there is nothing that can be done, and what is being done is as good as it can realistically get after Bidens catastrophic decision.

Maybe a united States of the Afghanistan should have been set up then? Each state being a little autonomous..

@VestaTilley

I agree completely. We should never have left.

I am so disgusted with our Govt and furious at Biden. Some bloody hope he turned out to be.

What a ridiculous over-simplification. Biden was completing what Trump started (Trump had signed an agreement with the Taliban to withdraw all US troops by May this year, so Biden is actually late). Why are you disgusted and furious exactly?

after Bidens catastrophic decision.
To honour a peace agreement signed by Trump?

To pull out without an evacuation strategy.

Anyone reading this thread and genuinely interested / concerned should watch Rory Stewart's 2 part documentary from 2012 about Afghanistan.

It gives a history of the 'graveyard of empires' as Afghanistan has been nicknamed - and how its been invaded and defeated before - but never conquered.

He talks about how when Empires start to lose and their bodies start to pile up, there is this belief that you have to carry on in order to honour the dead. Stewart's point is you can't honour the dead by piling bodies on top of bodies.

Remembering it was made nearly a decade ago, the points it make really echo with whats happening now.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b01jk6ch/afghanistan-the-great-game-a-personal-view-by-rory-stewart

Its really VERY VERY good.

Also "this is what winning looks like"

Two parts following marines and British troops as they try to "suggest" basic human compassion stuff eg give prisoners water, don't rape little boys the community will hate you and won't trust you etc

What I have trouble digesting is that ppl think Britain can just go in and sort out a complex area like the Middle East even though no one has been able to do it in the last millennia. Like it’s just a decision away and within our power. Liberating the Afghans. What firs that mean? Who even are the Afghans? We know nothing about the 30m population, what they believe, what they want, the nuanced alliances and aggressions between towns and families. To liberate them means opening up the door for the people to live within the rules of their own version of Islam which I. Turn may not be the same as the next families or town and do stein fighting and revenge will break out. Even if they end up in UK or USA they will continue to live within their own cultural Islamic bubble and cherry pick only the democratic values that they see fit. And some still want to send innocent soldiers into this chaos because it’s that they signed up for, apparently.

Who are we to decide what is good for a deeply traditional tribal society?

@VestaTilley

I agree completely. We should never have left.

I am so disgusted with our Govt and furious at Biden. Some bloody hope he turned out to be.

The UK has been all but left since 2014. What would you want the UK govt to do? Stay without the US? Pile in more troops? Without the Americans the UK armed forces would be underconstant attack with more deaths racking up every month. Then you'd be disgusted with our Govt for allowing that as well.

This is long but a really good look at the history of foreign intervention in Afghanistan and why nation-building is basically doomed as a concept:

www.noemamag.com/the-end-of-nation-building/

We should never have gone in in the first place and when we did go in we should have left after bin laden was found next door in Pakistan.

The whole operation has been a waste of a trillion dollars and untold lives. Nothing has changed nor will it. Afghanistan is a tribal society where culture and religion are their overwhelming influence not a notion of western democracy.

No we can not fix Afghanistan, and we shouldn’t send our young men and women to die trying.

It’s an appalling mess, but going back in now would mean all out war.

We should never have gone in in the first place and when we did go in we should have left after bin laden was found next door in Pakistan

Dont forget that he wasn't just found "in" Pakistan, but right next to a military academy - some say that the army actually built his blasted compound for him, and far from "not knowing he was there" and there's a suggestion that he was feted by the academy and invited to give lectures

I'm sorry but it's easy to have that opinion when you are not the one going back. DH has done two tours of Afghanistan and has thankfully come back in one piece. Who is to say he will be so lucky the third time round? Sadly it is a situation that does not have a solution. My heart breaks for that country but that is not the answer.

AFGHAN people. Not afghani. That's a currency