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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that the American, British and others should return to liberate the Afghani people?

216 replies

GreatEelRun · 26/08/2021 18:31

I don’t usually do politics but my God, this situation is unacceptable. The US, the UK and whoever else was previously involved in the past 20- year restructure of Afghanistan need to return there right now, with additional support and get rid of the Taliban and Isis, no matter how long this takes.

I am utterly disgusted with our govt. The way I see it. we can return now and deal with it, or return in a few years after it’s been brought onto our own soil.

Where is the humanity in this crisis?

OP posts:
amiadillo · 26/08/2021 22:53

I wouldn't want to go out there & fight so I feel I can't demand it of others.

FedNlanders · 26/08/2021 22:54

@5zeds

Surely the Taliban are Afghan? How do we liberate afghans from themselves?
No, a huge majority are pashtun.
ChardonnaysPetDragon · 26/08/2021 22:55

Watching Biden now. He looks really bad. Even Chernenko was livelier than him back in the Eighties, when they propped him up at the red square parade

TartanJumper · 26/08/2021 22:55

patkinney I agree with that too. And sadly the list of countries the West has fucked over doesn't end with those that have been invaded.

Porcupineintherough · 26/08/2021 22:57

No we should not go back. Afghanistan has been fought over and messed about with for hundreds of years and every intervention causes more problems than it solves. They need to be left to work things out for themselves. There is no shortcut that's actually going to make things better quickly, or save lives in the long term.

amiadillo · 26/08/2021 22:58

I do think they should have evacuated everybody they needed to before withdrawing troops, though.

I assume they were predicting an attack

amiadillo · 26/08/2021 23:01

And why are people blaming the governments , this is the Taliban and ISIS . It’s like blaming a rape victim .

I though that

MsJinks · 26/08/2021 23:02

@brighterblighter - I would debate born equal and free but that’s a long one!
I’m not debating that Taliban rule is horrible- but it’s not that long ago that ours was, we had effectively concentration camps until 1975 for example, and our women had few to no rights not so long back. Sadly hatred too can be preached in the west as much as the east. We are happy too to sell arms to Saudi to bomb Yemen so I’m not so sure we have a moral high ground on much though I’m glad personally to live in the west. I too prefer our covert rules to Saudi overt ones - however, it was a Saudi lady made that comment and it isn’t for me to deny her reality, my point being it isn’t so simple as to say hey we made it and now you must - at the least it gets people’s backs up.
Women are working on gaining their rights in their countries, other equalities are strives for - I don’t believe it works to impose them however.
What is happening around the world to people, and today in Afghanistan is shocking and heartbreaking, but there is no easy resolution and not much reason to believe we are much better, or right imo.

amiadillo · 26/08/2021 23:02

Perhaps the Taliban in the aim of legitimacy will end fighting with the west against Isis K

kirinm · 26/08/2021 23:04

@Blueleah

We (and other countries including the US) have spent 20 years training and equipping the Afghan army. Then we withdrew and said “get on with defending your country then”. But they chose not to! They surrendered without even fighting. So if they won’t defend their own country then how can we do it for them? We can’t stay there forever. The fact is, many Afghan people WANT Sharia law and Taliban rule. They aren’t remotely horrified by a return to brutality and oppression of women. The news was reporting men jeering at women in the street and yelling at them to go and buy burkas. Until the majority of people want freedom we cannot impose it upon them.
That is not true. Afghan troops were being killed by the Taliban before Kabul fell. They have always been sorted by US air forces and that was withdrawn overnight.
Livelovebehappy · 26/08/2021 23:09

The Afghanistan military had many more fighters than the Taliban, and clearly just stood back and let this happen. If they can’t be arsed to fight to free their own people, then why should we?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/08/2021 23:10

Liberate them how? The Taliban seem to be welcomed by many

Exactly

Granted it's a mess, but with so many who seem to have sold out to the Taliban it was always going to be. For me, the mistake was in hanging around so long, thinking we could make any difference

Usual virtue signalling all over the thread of course, no doubt all from those who wouldn't be risking their lives, but the vote's interesting ...

kirinm · 26/08/2021 23:11

*supported not sorted

ididitsocanyou · 26/08/2021 23:11

It’s a war of attrition. The west don’t win those type of wars. Terrorists do. It will never be resolved until their funding stops.

amiadillo · 26/08/2021 23:12

No-one will solve this, or any other terrorist conflict, when they have to fight with one hand tied behind their back, ie they fight in accordance woth the Geneva Convention and the terrorists don't!

agree

Livelovebehappy · 26/08/2021 23:14

Also, there are so many countries in the world where awful things are happening to their people, where their laws dictate prejudice and infringement of human rights, but we leave them to get on with things, because the reality is that we can’t intervene in every country’s issues, however much we may want to. It’s just not practical.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/08/2021 23:14

The Afghanistan military had many more fighters than the Taliban, and clearly just stood back and let this happen. If they can’t be arsed to fight to free their own people, then why should we?

It's said that a lot of those "soldiers" exist only on paper, created just to get the money in the usual corruption, so it's possible there are fewer than supposed

That said, IMO we've given enough, so if the Afghan people have a problem with how the ANA have carried on they can take it up themselves (or perhaps could have done, except now it's too late)

twelly · 26/08/2021 23:15

The US cannot be relied upon and if Joe Biden wants to launch strikes the UK should have no part in it - the US is too keen to demand support from other countries but does not think it owes them any consideration or debate on actions. I think the UK should recognise should align itself with countries who have the similar values.

TheFairyCaravan · 26/08/2021 23:16

I’ve not read the whole thread because I’m going to bed now, however don’t volunteer my son to run towards situations that you’d run away from @GreatEelRun. I’m so sick of people sitting at home, behind their keyboards volunteering other people to do things that they’d never do, nor want their loved ones to do.

We lost 457 members of the armed forces in Afghanistan and many more since as a direct result of it. They lost limbs, genitals and some of them lost their minds. Marriages, relationships and houses were lost. We all know that this is what they sign up to do but this isn’t our business, it’s being going on for hundreds of years but no one has successfully made it a stable country.

Dave20 · 26/08/2021 23:21

12 American service personnel and lots more civilians have been killed by a suicide bomber today. It may be even more casualties.
To be fair to the UK, with the US withdrawing, there is little else we can do.
Biden isn’t fit to be president either. The mans dangerous.

Rosehip10 · 26/08/2021 23:25

Get real - the US (and allies) is simply another "powerful nation" that has been beaten out of Afghanistan (as UK and the USSR have been previously).

Bluebellsinparadise · 26/08/2021 23:28

Of course we should not go back in.

The ease with which the Taliban took power shows that they have a lot of support. We can’t continue to prop up an unpopular government - it’s just not sustainable.

Our model of modern democracy is not exportable to countries like Afghanistan. When will we learn?

Those poor people who worked for the allies, who are now stuck and condemned to torture or death are of course in our thoughts. I wish we could swoop in and save them all, but that isn’t realistic.

Pixxie7 · 26/08/2021 23:30

Let’s face it we have been defeated. Yes mistakes have been made with the withdrawal. The people should have been removed before Biden announced the withdrawal, but we can’t afford the death of anymore innocent people military or otherwise.
The Taliban have said that their attitude has changed we can only wait and see.
The situation is awful and I can’t imagine the mindset of the suicide bombers.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/08/2021 23:33

The Taliban have said that their attitude has changed

Errrr ... there's this just for starters:

metro.co.uk/2021/08/26/afghanistan-music-will-be-banned-and-women-will-need-male-chaperones-15157906/

EddyF · 26/08/2021 23:34

@amiadillo

I wouldn't want to go out there & fight so I feel I can't demand it of others.
But is this not what they sign up for?