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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that the American, British and others should return to liberate the Afghani people?

216 replies

GreatEelRun · 26/08/2021 18:31

I don’t usually do politics but my God, this situation is unacceptable. The US, the UK and whoever else was previously involved in the past 20- year restructure of Afghanistan need to return there right now, with additional support and get rid of the Taliban and Isis, no matter how long this takes.

I am utterly disgusted with our govt. The way I see it. we can return now and deal with it, or return in a few years after it’s been brought onto our own soil.

Where is the humanity in this crisis?

OP posts:
Lightisnotwhite · 27/08/2021 07:36

@Fatya

The US et al did not go into Afghanistan on humanitarian grounds in the first place.

I'm no scholar of global politic but aren't there dozens of other countries whose regimes are at least as oppressivee as the Taliban? Should the US and its allies liberate them too?

Indeed but the combination of various active terrorist groups and the heroin trade made it dangerous for the west.

Human rights for individual countries don’t come into it. It’s when it affects our human rights we take action.

PickUpAPepper · 27/08/2021 07:40

@Mummyoflittledragon

YABU Biden is already pledging retaliation for the bombing yesterday. We will hunt you down and make you pay. The west is not altruistic and involvement in such conflicts is always because the west has something to gain and it’s either wealth or revenge.
I saw that. I think as soon as the airlift is finished we need to start asking our MPs about our willingness to follow the US empire around. If they expect NATO help for this, it needs to be very clear what it’s for - and we should not be following them to avenge slights to the American president/ emperor’s ego. If it is to protect civilians then we can talk about exactly what protection the inhabitants want.
Haywirecity · 27/08/2021 07:40

@GreatEelRun. I'm not sure if you're being unreasonable or not. So why don't you go over there yourself and fight the Taliban and then you can give me some feedback to make my decision?

TheQueef · 27/08/2021 07:55

I think you are right Pepper the days of wanging our empire at the world are over.
In this instance though I think retaliation will be drone strikes in the villages not boots and guns.
So plenty of civilian casualties and maybe the odd IS.
More devastation.

Claypotkitchentable · 27/08/2021 08:18

You think we should continue sending British soldiers there to be killed. Have you any idea how many have been killed since we first went there, not to mention all the ones now trying to live with PTSD and who have committed suicide since returning.

Are you going to sign your children and husband up to join the Army and go.

LittleBiscuit09 · 27/08/2021 09:14

I find it odd Biden (or those pulling the strings) pulled out so quickly. The blood is on his hands here, but he will go down without a stain

Lostmarbles2021 · 27/08/2021 09:28

It’s such a complex situation and I don’t fully understand the history and context of it, but should we have been there in the first place? And if yes, why? And...why aren’t we elsewhere ‘sorting’ stuff out?

There are human rights atrocities all over the world. We are doing nothing about the Chinese treatment of rohinga muslims for example.

I’m not saying whether we should or shouldn’t stay in Afghanistan, I have no idea which option would cause the least human suffering - but am just saying that it’s complex. My heart breaks for those who haven’t got out or have been killed trying. But it breaks for others that are in similar peril too. And for those already being killed by the effects of climate change...

We need to vote in a Government that actually cares about humanity as a whole for a start I guess? Boris and his cronies have only one goal - to maintain their own power and wealth IMHO

TheFairyCaravan · 27/08/2021 09:38

@kirinm

No offence is intended but for those saying they don't want their children going back to Afghanistan, they presumably joined the military over the last 20 years. They must surely have known where they'd likely end up?
I absolutely did know where DS1 would probably end up considering I married a man already in the military who is about to retire after 35yrs service. That doesn’t mean I have to like it when the world and his wife volunteer to send him to war while they’re tucking their kids up in bed though.

We all know exactly what they sign up to do but when it’s your child it’s different. In 6 weeks time DS1 is going on an operational tour. It’s safer than Afghanistan but not safe. When he was here for Summer leave we picked his eulogy photo that can be shown on the news and he has to write a “Dear Mum and Dad, if you’re reading this I’m dead” letter. He’s not fazed by it at all, neither is DH, but I am. I won’t settle properly until he’s home.

What bugs me the most is every November this site is full of thread after thread after thread moaning about buying a poppy because the money goes to the people who signed up voluntarily and people don’t agree with it. Yet as soon as the shit hits the fan anywhere, it’s “send the army in/back” without a care in the world. You can’t have it both ways.

gardeninggirl68 · 27/08/2021 10:33

They signed up for it!???

That ole chestnut

Nope..... they signed up to the armed forces, an organised, logical approach to warfare.... not blindly sending troops into an un winnable situation where they are set up to fail from the off

Which is what it would be

youdontnome · 27/08/2021 10:37

I know it's what ds signed up for, but as said above, I didn't. I actually don't care that that's how you feel about it, you dont know him and why he has made the life choices he has. What I really don't like is when friends and family say that. Honestly if that, as family, is all you can say when I'm worried out of my mind then probably best to stay quiet. I have certainly found out some truths about some family.
Also, lucky for you that some men and women do sign up, what would we do without an army, navy or air force. Even on the basis of helping out during flooding and the recent pandemic.

kirinm · 27/08/2021 10:52

@gardeninggirl68

They signed up for it!???

That ole chestnut

Nope..... they signed up to the armed forces, an organised, logical approach to warfare.... not blindly sending troops into an un winnable situation where they are set up to fail from the off

Which is what it would be

This has been going on for 20 years. Anyone who joined up in that time did our ought to have known what our government was up to. It's not that I don't have sympathy but the suggestion that people didn't know why they were getting themselves into was simply not true.
kirinm · 27/08/2021 10:55

@Claypotkitchentable

You think we should continue sending British soldiers there to be killed. Have you any idea how many have been killed since we first went there, not to mention all the ones now trying to live with PTSD and who have committed suicide since returning.

Are you going to sign your children and husband up to join the Army and go.

Yes. 457. Don't assume that people are completely ignorant to what has happened.

I also appreciate many more have suffered significant life changing injuries and PTSD.

NotJuryDutyAgain · 27/08/2021 11:02

There are no easy answers. Our presence there for so many years obviously wasn't enough to create lasting change. How long would be enough?

But there's no denying that Biden and his administration have proven to be incompetent. (No surprise there, but at least he's not Trump, right? Hmm)

JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil · 27/08/2021 11:11

Even if the western armies stayed for a further 100 years, the Taliban would turn up as soon they left. We should never have gone in. They can’t be defeated that way. It’s a narco state.

Disrupting their heroin supply lines, sanctions, diplomacy would have been better. Even paying them to send people who wished to leave especially women would’ve been cheaper and cost less lives over the last 20 years. The war was a massive massive mistake. It would never have ended well. No foreign invader has ever done well there.

The withdrawal was a shit show though, Biden should’ve done a slow withdrawal including removing refugees slowly without making a Big Bang end date announcement. The Taliban were essentially given a target date to gather food go to their caves and grab their guns.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/08/2021 11:24

A bit more targeted money and a second generation who only know a democratic government might have helped

I get the rationale but am not sure even of that. As you said yourself, it took hundreds of years to build western societies and Afghan style tribal loyalties can't be overturned in a few years, if at all

For all the "poor suffering innocents" photos there are so many who want the Taliban running things, so they sell out and accept the support of Pakistan who - god help us - are supposed to be a western ally, but who've turned out to be another playing both sides

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/08/2021 11:30

Biden should’ve done a slow withdrawal including removing refugees slowly without making a Big Bang end date announcement

Another very fair point, but I'm not sure that would have worked either. It could hardly have been done without cooperation inside Afghanistan, and there's every chance that whoever they involved would have sold us out too

Blossomtoes · 27/08/2021 12:09

Our model of modern democracy is not exportable to countries like Afghanistan. When will we learn?

Never it seems. We decry the days of Empire but how is this any different?

DynamoKev · 27/08/2021 12:15

YABU OP.

ActonSquirrel · 27/08/2021 12:34

I read some reports early on that some Afghan men were pleased the restrictions on women were coming back.

Maybe some don't want to be liberated.

bg21 · 27/08/2021 12:47

@MarshmallowSwede

Are you also going to be on that flight back? Don’t volunteer the lives of young soldiers if you aren’t going yourself.
Best comment yet x
peaceanddove · 27/08/2021 12:56

Unfortunately, the Taliban are determined to take Afghanistan back in time to the 1400s and keep it there.

VestaTilley · 27/08/2021 13:50

I agree completely. We should never have left.

I am so disgusted with our Govt and furious at Biden. Some bloody hope he turned out to be.

Blossomtoes · 27/08/2021 13:57

@VestaTilley

I agree completely. We should never have left.

I am so disgusted with our Govt and furious at Biden. Some bloody hope he turned out to be.

How much longer should “we” have stayed there? Until the end of time?
ActonSquirrel · 27/08/2021 14:26

@VestaTilley

I agree completely. We should never have left.

I am so disgusted with our Govt and furious at Biden. Some bloody hope he turned out to be.

Are you not disgusted by the Afghanistan president who fled like a coward leaving his own people in this mess?